WTF is wrong with people

Empyrean Drums

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Soldier dies after bar fight over Jimmy Buffett song in Steamboat
A soldier from Fort Bragg died this morning in Denver from injuries suffered from a bar fight in Steamboat Springs on Friday night over a Jimmy Buffett song.

Richard Lopez, 37, of Fayetteville, N.C., was pronounced dead at 4:16 a.m. today at Denver Health Medical Center. An autopsy by the Arapahoe County Coroner's office is scheduled for Tuesday.

"This is a very sad and serious case," said Capt. Joel Rae with Steamboat Springs police.

So far, no suspects have been arrested, although police have talked to two individuals involved in the fight.

"We know where they are and they have been interviewed," said Rae.

The case is being investigated as a homicide.

The incident occurred before 12:15 a.m. Friday when police were called to a fight between five people outside the Tap House.

"The initial disagreement was about music being played on the jukebox," said Rae, adding that it was a Jimmy Buffet song.

"Richard Lopez and two other individuals put on the song, but two other individuals did not agree with it."

It was not known which Jimmy Buffett song was being played at the time, but the fight was taken outside the bar.

By the time officers arrived on scene, the fight was over and Lopez was on the ground at Lincoln Avenue and Seventh Street.

Two of Lopez's friends, who were not identified by police but are from Steamboat Springs, were also injured in the fight.

Lopez was initially taken to Yampa Valley Medical Center, but later airlifted to Denver Health Medical Center.

Lopez's friends, identified by the Steamboat Pilot as Timothy Mottlau of Norfolk, Va., and Wesley Mottlau, of Fayetteville, N.C., were taken to the hospital with cuts and bruises.

Calls to the Mottlau's home in Steamboat Springs were not returned today.

Rae said that all three were on leave from the military - Lopez and one of his friends were with the Army, while the other friend was in the Navy.

A call to Fort Bragg indicated that Lopez was part of a special forces unit. More details were not available about his service.

Rae said the case is still under investigation.

"Somebody died," he said. "We're taking this very seriously."

While he said barfights were not uncommon in the town, it was unusual that a person died in a fight not involving any weapons.

"This is the first time that a physical fight has resulted in a loss of life from the use of hands and fists," he said.

"It's a shame that it had to happen."
 

Empyrean Drums

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Even the tone of the article is crazy
"This is the first time that a physical fight has resulted in a loss of life from the use of hands and fists," he said.

Like its perfectly normal to have people shoot or stab each other over Jimmy Buffet while dozens of people watch, just not beat each other to death
 

SGarrett

New member
All it takes is the right blow to the head. The song was the catalyst for people who were probably looking for a bad time. The fight was likely due to a mutual lack of respect, words, and pride. The death of this man had very little to do with a Jimmy Buffet song and for all we know, because we don't know anything about what happened, the two trouble makers got themselves into a situation where they had to defend themselves against trained killers. If this person was killed over a song, things would've gotten serious right in front of the juke box. I've also seem more than a few military personnel who think their training makes them superhuman in a fist fight. Were these three like that? I can't say, all I can say is that I've seen that attitude itself spark fights.

One of my friends who's a 'Nam vet and agent orange survivor was almost beaten and kicked to death by six gang members in the middle of a food court with over 100 people who just sat and watched. He has to walk with a cane now and almost lost the ability to walk altogether. He considers himself lucky though, because he was in a coma for a few days and close to death. Why did this happen? Because he was a security guard and asked them to leave the mall because of their behavior.
 

Empyrean Drums

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Of course it had little to do with Jimmy Buffet, that's kind of my point. I can even expect two (or more) drunk @ss holes to fight over any excuse. What I can't fathom, is the dozens of spectators who would step over a choking man to get a quarter pounder with cheese.

I'm going to court next month because I was subpoenaed for intervening in a similar situation. I was at my ATM machine with my brother when we heard a disturbance. I looked out to see the typical bar brawl crowed and two men engaged in drunken boxing. After one of the men pushed the other down and began beating his face in, I felt it was time to step in. I ran out, push him off, then fended off him and his buddies with my brother until the police showed up. I don't think any of them were looking for a bad time, no one wants to spend the night in jail or having their eyeball re-attached (of course, they never see that as a consequence of their actions). I don’t have a binary sense of guilt so I don’t hold those who watched as accountable.
I just have to say, if you find yourself thinking “man, somebody should do something”; that somebody is you.
 

SmellsLikeIan

New member
For sure, Emp. One thing I've heard as well is that a blow to the head of a drunk person can be much more serious than a sober person. Even more of a reason not to fight while you're drinking. Not that I know anything about this particular situation.

Maybe the guys were arguing over whether or not Jimmy Buffett actually wrote Margaritaville or just sang it (kidding).

It was written by Shel Silverstein.
 

SINISTER

New member
God thats effin messed up. I hate drunken assholes that fight for no reason........and over a jimmy buffet song.....WTF is wrong with people
 

lexington

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The point is, he is a soldier who served for his country as well. I don't know how any of you feel about the army/war, but he is putting his life on the line by serving. and while he's on leave to be KILLED over a SONG?! That just boggles my mind completely. I feel so disgusted and I now have a little less faith in the human race than I already did :(
 

wmpdrummer13

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lexington":2x0wy9z6 said:
The point is, he is a soldier who served for his country as well. I don't know how any of you feel about the army/war, but he is putting his life on the line by serving. and while he's on leave to be KILLED over a SONG?! That just boggles my mind completely. I feel so disgusted and I now have a little less faith in the human race than I already did :(


Well at the same time Im sure the guys who got in the fight with this Soldier were not aware that he was in the military but I just dont understand how people get so upset over the dumbest of things. Hopefully they throw the book at this ignorant fool and maybe some of these people who get in fights over this stupid shit will think twice before they throw that punch.
 

Empyrean Drums

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I guess this got to me because I can’t even waste away in margaritaville without a fight breaking out between two drunk cromags about whether the A-Team are fugitive vigilantes or mercenary bounty hunters. Some people just gotta have their finger on the button at all times.
 

nydubber

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being ex-military and knowing how 99.9% of people in the military are when they are at a bar, I'm sure that this Lopez guy wasn't an innocent by-stander by any means.

Yes, it sucks he was killed, and this is just an amazingly stupid event...but I'm sure the death could have gone either way given how drunk people tend to act out in such situations.

As long as pot is illegal I will be a firm supporter of making sure alcohol is made illegal again. I have seen it do more damage and harm than ANY joint or bong smoked by ANYONE.
 

Empyrean Drums

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nydubber":1tn09mem said:
being ex-military and knowing how 99.9% of people in the military are when they are at a bar, I'm sure that this Lopez guy wasn't an innocent by-stander by any means.

Yes, it sucks he was killed, and this is just an amazingly stupid event...but I'm sure the death could have gone either way given how drunk people tend to act out in such situations.

As long as pot is illegal I will be a firm supporter of making sure alcohol is made illegal again. I have seen it do more damage and harm than ANY joint or bong smoked by ANYONE.

Him being military is beside the point, and from what I've read neither party was just mindin' their own business. Alcohol was a contributing factor, but not the guilty party.
 

wmpdrummer13

New member
nydubber":2erul7me said:
being ex-military and knowing how 99.9% of people in the military are when they are at a bar, I'm sure that this Lopez guy wasn't an innocent by-stander by any means.

Yes, it sucks he was killed, and this is just an amazingly stupid event...but I'm sure the death could have gone either way given how drunk people tend to act out in such situations.

As long as pot is illegal I will be a firm supporter of making sure alcohol is made illegal again. I have seen it do more damage and harm than ANY joint or bong smoked by ANYONE.


Could not agree more with that last statement but its all about money!
 

nydubber

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Empyrean Drums":1ues9hqb said:
nydubber":1ues9hqb said:
being ex-military and knowing how 99.9% of people in the military are when they are at a bar, I'm sure that this Lopez guy wasn't an innocent by-stander by any means.

Yes, it sucks he was killed, and this is just an amazingly stupid event...but I'm sure the death could have gone either way given how drunk people tend to act out in such situations.

As long as pot is illegal I will be a firm supporter of making sure alcohol is made illegal again. I have seen it do more damage and harm than ANY joint or bong smoked by ANYONE.

Him being military is beside the point, and from what I've read neither party was just mindin' their own business. Alcohol was a contributing factor, but not the guilty party.

Being in the military is not beside the point, actually. I have never been someplace where you are expected to drink and it isn't frowned upon....but then they wonder why DUI rates, abuse rates, divorce rates, and suicide rates, are umpteen times higher than in the civilian sector.

Alcohol is essentially viewed in the same light as cigarettes in the military. They spend sooooo much time and money on getting troops to not smoke and drink, yet they give you NOTHING to do in the meantime to avoid picking up the habits. I never smoked before joining the Air Force, I HATED it. Once I got to tech school, the only way to get out of class or to avoid doing extra "busy" work was to be a smoker. Instructors would litereally say, "alright, I need a smoke....anyone that wants to join me, lets go for 15...the rest of you sit in here and study."

Now, once we were active duty, take that exact same logic and apply it to alcohol. After work, your superiors are telling you "hey, we are going out for some moral purposes....come along." They line up 10 shots and you start becoming tolerant to things you never thought possible. Next thing you know someone is throwing a chair at you, you're in a fight over a girl you've never seen before...and the next morning you are standing before you commander saying "ehh, I was just w/my first shirt having a drink, next thing I knew I was in the back of the SP's car."

That happened to a kid his first week at our shop. Ended up getting an LOR and doing "base beautification" for 2 months...

then at base-funtions you'd have 2 or 3 15-passenger vans to take people home....in a squadron with 1000+ people attending that really isn't rational logistics. (each of the two squadrons were about 2k people, but not everyone attended EVERYTHING because of the different shifts and work schedules)

I remember telling my dad about one of the first ones we had and he was like "hey, at least they are making progress"... CUE 'Back-in-my-day' story... "Back in my day, you didn't have those 2 or 3 vans to take you home, it was every man for himself."

There is a certain part of the military that ALL the branches try and hide from the civilian sector, once you are in they are blindingly obvious, but soon as you are out again...you almost forget about them. Hearing stories like this does not surprise me AT ALL.

So again, his being in the military has everything to do with this event. Could it have happened to someone NOT in the military? Yes

But, are the chances of it happening to someone who IS serving our country greatly increased due to factors you probably aren't aware of? Oh you betcha...

Then again, you have to ask would it even be reported if it hadn't happened to someone in the military? Probably not - since 9/11 fire fighters and military personel are viewed COMPLETELY differently in the media's eyes.
 

Empyrean Drums

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Him being in the military is a side note; you trying to turn your individual experience into a stereotype that 99.9% of military personnel act this way is pretty far-fetched. The air force made you smoke? No, that was your choice. Just like the military didn't make these guys get drunk and fight, it was their choice. Lining up 10 shots in front of you isn't the same as being tied down and having them poured down your throat. Laying the blame on alcohol or the military is a wash for personal accountability.
 

nydubber

New member
yeh, because peer pressure involving proven habit forming activities is just hogwash, for lack of a better work :)

most people that join the military do so right out of high school, or after some kind of college experience. Very very small percentages join after the age of 24/25. Like it or not, the 18-23 age bracket is the most easily influenced age demographic when it comes to wanting to "look cool."

This guy was 37, he had been around this lifestyle a good amount of time. If...IF - he joined early in his adult-life this only backs up what I'm saying, and what the numbers show. Last name Lopez, numbers also show that there is a HUGE disparity in the amount of minorities that join the armed forces straight out of high school or acquiring their GED. So, again...another thing that leads me to believe he had been in the service a good amount of time.

When you are around military people, you are just "trained" (again, for lack of a better word) to over-do things. You think your branch is the best (af vs. army, marines vs army, army vs. marines, coast guard vs. navy...doesn't matter) you think your squadron is the best, you think your shop is the best, back-shop vs flight line, AF Sp's vs. Army Sp's. EVERYTHING is a competition and they just DRILL that into you. So you had 3 guys (2 army and 1 navy....so I remember from reading earlier) drinking at a bar, getting into a fight w/someone over a song. This guy, Lopez, is responsible for what happened to him, BUT...you can't avoid the problems that underly the situation. You simply can't.

There are issues with our military from the inside out. This merely caught my attention because I have seen very similar things first-hand, and even went through one myself. I took responsibility for my actions, but I also know that I wouldn't have been in the situation I was in if the events going on around me weren't under better control. The Armed Forces don't advertise in their commercials for the majority of REAL stuff you go through on a daily-basis...so I honestly (really, I do) don't expect someone who hasn't served, to understand. Also, everyone has their own experiences with it. My dad retired after 24 years in about 8 years ago, and my uncle just hit his 25 year this past summer...both of them have completely different views and they both are Air Force Chief Master Sgt.'s....my uncle agrees w/me on more things and my dad sees things the "old-fashioned" kinda way. My uncle and I both contribute this to the fact my dad got out about 8 years ago now...things have changed A LOT since then.

Quickly, back to my smoking. I didn't smoke for first 19 years of my life. I smoked for the 3 of the 4 years I was in and an on/off smoker for the next year after I got out. I have been smoke free the past 2 years. Not being around something on a daily basis makes it REALLY easy to stop doing.

Anyway....great conversation, I mean no harm or to rub anyone the wrong way. :mrgreen: And you can disagree w/me, I am fine w/that - not trying to win anyone over, only show the other-side of the coin.
 

SINISTER

New member
holy crap dubber.......paraphraze man........I havent read that much since high school :mrgreen: ....J/K
 
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