to click track or not to click track...that is the question.

mudoyal

New member
man,,,, you can ask one drummers opinion on a click and they will tell you they live by a click.. ask another and they will tell you to just feel the music. i guess it all boils down to how you can pull it off. i'm working on my second album, we are three and a half songs into it. but one of them has so many tempo changes, you can't click to it, unless you program the click track. i've tried that. but it seems like everytime i play my songs to a click, all of the energy is lost, my band doesn't even sound like us anymore give me some feedback.
 

drummert2k

New member
playing to a click will greatly help your band and engineer and producer give you a really good clean sound. especially with punch ins and loops and stuff. i feel that in a studio the click is a musy (although there are exeption) but every single session i have been hired for i've used a click and 75% of the time the reason a band hires me to record the disc is because their drummer CAN'T play to the click.
 

Mike T

New member
you know some folks would have you believe you can not make good music without technolagy,complete BS most of the best Music ever made was recoreded live,play what you feel you have to get into the music to play with it...forget about clicks and BS like that music comes from the heart not the click....
 

drummert2k

New member
mudoyal":od4yre8o said:
well, i'm really not about punch in's
you might not be but theres other members in your band that might need or want to utilize it. even for something as small as a semi bent guitar note that sounds a little sour. better to just punch something like that in than to have to redo the song and possible not do it as well only because you're not into punch ins. doesnt make you any less of a drummer. as long as the producer is good you cant even tell where punch ins take place.
 

youknowitssick

New member
whether you like it, or want to believe it.
if you're going to be in a band, you have to make friends with the click track.
4 years ago when my first band went into the studio, i had never played to one, and i was a nervous wreck.
now, it's my best friend, and i play to one live.
 

SilentDrummer

New member
You HAVE to play with click when you register, expecially when there are many tempo-changes.
Build the structure of the entire song with the metronome and then start recording.
Anyway, about the feeling, remember that every album that you listen is done with a metronome, and many many many artists also during their live gigs use mp3 and so on, so that you will hear that CLICK CLICK also on stage! (O_O)
If you learn how the time goes, you can lay back your playing, and you'll feel a little slower than the metronome, or push, and you will be a little faster.
You don't have ALWAYS to be straight with it, that's why you can obtain feeling even with it.
Try those two possibilites...
Guess you need to record many many times your drums at home...
 

The Alien Drummer

New member
Mike T":2rcrtrkq said:
you know some folks would have you believe you can not make good music without technolagy,complete BS most of the best Music ever made was recoreded live,play what you feel you have to get into the music to play with it...forget about clicks and BS like that music comes from the heart not the click....
The original purpose of the inventors of the metronome was to provide a yardstick with which tempos could be accurately measured. Even in the very first recordings conductors would set down a metronome track FIRST. This is not NEW TECHNOLOGY. Even Beethoven had metronome marks and tempo marked his music. I think many people dismiss it out of ignorance as opposed to embracing it and then deciding how to apply in their own setting.

Your application may be to initially start a song live and then play by "heart/feel" or your application may be playing the entire song to click. Personally I use both in my performances.


Practice playing to a metronome or drum machine it improves your time and gets you playing right on overdub sessions in the studio. It also makes you better while playing live. FOR THE MOST PART the people that say the drumming "doesn't feel good if they use a click" just need to get better at it. BUT there are always exceptions.


The two uses of a metronome are

(1) to set an absolute tempo

(2) to act as a guide in learning complex rhythms.

People, please don't be afraid to buy a metronome and please don't bash it just because you haven't put in the practice hours to get it down.

Kudos to old players like Ringo that have near perfect tempo and didn't use a metronome! But they are the exception, not the rule.
 

Daneman

New member
I and my band actually prefer a live recording without click. As an experiment, we recorded the same song twice, once with and without the click. The results were night and day- the live track had a certain personality, a liveliness that the click track lacked, which was very stale and boring.

To generalize and say that every professional musician in every genre of music uses a click when recording is inaccurate. It might be true in a more rock/pop based music, but you're discounting a number of genres.

There are certain types of music- old school R & B/funk, and about 90% of original, heavily syncopated New Orleans influenced music- in which a click track is pointless. Most of this type music gets its flavor from the fact that everything is intentionally played either slightly in front of or behind the beat, and rarely on top of it. Considering this type of music is my bread and butter, I can't recall a recording session where I've even been asked to use a metronome or click track.
 

Rockula!

New member
Daneman makes a very un-traditionalist statement but it is very true
The people who live by the click also live by other's musical guidelines
Unless you are playing heavily sequenced music, you have to posess apalling time in order to have a producer enforce the click on you

All of this depends on what you want to do with your music
If you want to be a session guy then you have to live by the click
However, most people that want to play rock music do not need a click track
There is nothing wrong with using it to improve your time
However, there are recordings I have done where the click actually ruins the feel of the song

The click is not the devil but it is also not god
 

break the prism

New member
the real help behind a metronome is that it helps producers pinpoint an exact spot or beat to edit or add something to. i say that when you're playing, just feel the music but have the metronome loud enough to find later for editing.
 

nickbaldwin

New member
I only use a click when I practise at home.

In the studio, I use a guide track, usually midi, which I guess it is kind of a metronome, but its to give me the feel of a song more than to keep me in time.
 

scrubs

New member
I think any drummer interested in recording should be able to play to a click consistently. Not that you always have to, but learn it, just as you learn rudiments, etc.
 

Mike T

New member
The Alien Drummer":3gbjbyah said:
Mike T":3gbjbyah said:
you know some folks would have you believe you can not make good music without technolagy,complete BS most of the best Music ever made was recoreded live,play what you feel you have to get into the music to play with it...forget about clicks and BS like that music comes from the heart not the click....
The original purpose of the inventors of the metronome was to provide a yardstick with which tempos could be accurately measured. Even in the very first recordings conductors would set down a metronome track FIRST. This is not NEW TECHNOLOGY. Even Beethoven had metronome marks and tempo marked his music. I think many people dismiss it out of ignorance as opposed to embracing it and then deciding how to apply in their own setting.

Your application may be to initially start a song live and then play by "heart/feel" or your application may be playing the entire song to click. Personally I use both in my performances.


Practice playing to a metronome or drum machine it improves your time and gets you playing right on overdub sessions in the studio. It also makes you better while playing live. FOR THE MOST PART the people that say the drumming "doesn't feel good if they use a click" just need to get better at it. BUT there are always exceptions.


The two uses of a metronome are

(1) to set an absolute tempo

(2) to act as a guide in learning complex rhythms.

People, please don't be afraid to buy a metronome and please don't bash it just because you haven't put in the practice hours to get it down.

Kudos to old players like Ringo that have near perfect tempo and didn't use a metronome! But they are the exception, not the rule.
There are many great Pocket Players who are human metranomes,that is not the point here in this day and age people are not making music so much with their feelings as they are with a computer and guess what? it sounds like it .. Boring, Monotonas(SP) and predictable i would much rather listen to a group try to do something and be off tempo a time or two than listen to a machine which is in essense what playing to a click is like.

Of course there is a place for it and also a type of music for it but rock and roll is not that place,this new generation of players no matter what the instrument need to back off their dependency on Technolagy and start playing some real music again.

:isten to people like John Bohnam,Ginger Baker, Ian Paice Mick Fleetwood,Matt abs all great tempo players your hi hat is your click learn to use it .
 

drummert2k

New member
anyone who doesnt use a metronome because they claim you loose the feeling or emotion or it makes it sound boring, its not the metronome, its you. the metronome doesnt play your parts. its gives you a guideline so when you piece your cd together the engineer has a tempo guidline and that you're disc sounds professional and theres not tempo fluctuations. and yes, playing without a metronome will show those tempo fluctuations. if you're ever planning on playing with a band who gets signed to a decend label, you WILL be recording to a click or it wont be you drumming on the disc. saying you cant play to a click because it lacks feeling is the same as saying you have to play out of time to make it feel good. the click is there for a reference, not to live by. anyone who cant play or record with a click simply hasnt learned to get into the click itself. you have to get to a point where you can feel like you're controlling the click and the click is sinking into the groove as much as the drum part.

this is all for studio of course. when it comes to live playing i persoanlly dont like using a click. but in a studio, its a must
 

Rockaflodge

New member
I agree with you drummert2k, I think drummers who say playing to a click takes away the feeling are just not surecure anuff with it to play with all their energy. The best way to put it... If you want a job as a drummer, You have to be able to play to a click track. My frist time playing with a click track I was horrible, so insted of trying to find ways not to use it, I worked with one every day untill I was sloid as a rock with it. Now it my friend, BUT I dont use one live, my band does not use loop tracks or dat taps so I see no reason to use one live.
 

Daneman

New member
drummert2k":32tsz9x3 said:
if you're ever planning on playing with a band who gets signed to a decend label, you WILL be recording to a click or it wont be you drumming on the disc.
Like I said before, it may be more common these days, but it's not true that you absolutely have to record to a click. Not do you absolutely have to mic and muffle every single drum in your collection. Call me old school, but I've always liked the sound of drumset when using as little mics as possible- and I've always preferred recording live. Too many mics and the drums don't sound like a cohesive unit.

I understand that click tracks and close micing are pretty much the accepted norm or the current trend, but that doesn't mean other more old school or traditional methods can't be used without the same if not better results. Listen to basically anything recorded in any genre prior to 1970 and you'll see what I mean.

Just because technology has improved does not make traditional methods obsolete. The best advice an old timer gave me was:

A drummer shouldn't need a click track; his natural timing should be the click track for the rest of the band.

Bono
 

Bizzy

New member
mudoyal":33d1i9rt said:
man,,,, you can ask one drummers opinion on a click and they will tell you they live by a click.. ask another and they will tell you to just feel the music. i guess it all boils down to how you can pull it off. i'm working on my second album, we are three and a half songs into it. but one of them has so many tempo changes, you can't click to it, unless you program the click track. i've tried that. but it seems like everytime i play my songs to a click, all of the energy is lost, my band doesn't even sound like us anymore give me some feedback.
I've recorded several c.d's and used a click track on one, then ended up rerecording it w/out it. Some do prefer it, and thats fine, but I always felt that it made the music a bit mechanical sounding. If your songs has a lot of feeling, using that click can make it quite stagnet. I personally just prefer feeling it out, it's always sounded better.
 

drummert2k

New member
Daneman":1b9zh56d said:
drummert2k":1b9zh56d said:
if you're ever planning on playing with a band who gets signed to a decend label, you WILL be recording to a click or it wont be you drumming on the disc.
Like I said before, it may be more common these days, but it's not true that you absolutely have to record to a click. Not do you absolutely have to mic and muffle every single drum in your collection. Call me old school, but I've always liked the sound of drumset when using as little mics as possible- and I've always preferred recording live. Too many mics and the drums don't sound like a cohesive unit.

I understand that click tracks and close micing are pretty much the accepted norm or the current trend, but that doesn't mean other more old school or traditional methods can't be used without the same if not better results. Listen to basically anything recorded in any genre prior to 1970 and you'll see what I mean.

Just because technology has improved does not make traditional methods obsolete. The best advice an old timer gave me was:

A drummer shouldn't need a click track; his natural timing should be the click track for the rest of the band.

Bono
you have some very good points i fully agree with. but most studios (atleast the bigger ones, not little basemtn studios in a friends house) dont give you the option of how many mics you want to use and stuff like that. they TELL you what you will be using and also a lot of times make you record with a click only because it makes their job a whole lot easier. now if you hire your own engineer thats when you can discuss personal preference. but other than that, a lot of times you dont have a choice. i've even recorded at studios where they have the drums and cymbals and everything and make you use that stuff only because it makes less work for the engineer. it really sucks when that happens.
 
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