Rudiments, necessary or not?

jayusl

New member
I'm 28 years old and just started drumming about a year ago. No lessons. Wife, three kids, and a career keeps me from spending extra money and time in a drum class. At first I made some progress with my timing and listening skills. For a while I progressed pretty quickly. Now I'm at the point where I'm really concentrating on independence.
Then it happened......my progress completely stopped, I'm getting frustrated.
Here's the problem (I hope):
I never practiced or learned any rudiments.
Does anyone agree? If so, how much time should I spend practicing them?
Should I stop playing on my kit until I get comfortable playing all 40 rudiments (I own a book now)?
I really enjoy playing and am focused on doing what I need to do to progress. Help!
 

drummert2k

New member
jayusl":uv614rei said:
Should I stop playing on my kit until I get comfortable playing all 40 rudiments
after you get the 40 down then you can start the endless journey on hybrid rudiments. theres tons and tons of them out there to play around with.

as for your original question, i personaly feel rudiments are extremly important. they help build the muscle memory in your hands to play lots of cool stuff on the kit. you can definitely play drums without knowing rudiments. but learning them and practicing them will only help you.
 

Flatliner

New member
I don't think you have to know them, but I've found they are really helpful, I would not stop playing your kit until you've learned them, but instead do them alongside your kit playing.

Maybe to begin with you should start with most of your time on rudiments and the more you learn and get comfortable with them shift more towards the kit playing again.

This anallogy might be lost on you but the rudiments are like musical scales, you can avoid them, but if you put in the time with them they'll pay you back tenfold.
 

BroadwayJoeyB

New member
I think eventually you have to learn how to walk. Alot of rock drummers (myself included) eventually hit that wall where they see guys like Weckl, Mayer, Gadd and realize that they want to be better all-around drummers. I've noticed that even Neil Peart has has changed his style somewhat to accomodate a more jazzy style of play. I think every serious drummer gets back to basics at some point if anything for credibility.
 

CDAHoF

New member
jayusl":2scyej3s said:
I'm 28 years old and just started drumming about a year ago. No lessons. Wife, three kids, and a career keeps me from spending extra money and time in a drum class. At first I made some progress with my timing and listening skills. For a while I progressed pretty quickly. Now I'm at the point where I'm really concentrating on independence.
Then it happened......my progress completely stopped, I'm getting frustrated.
Here's the problem (I hope):
I never practiced or learned any rudiments.
Does anyone agree? If so, how much time should I spend practicing them?
Should I stop playing on my kit until I get comfortable playing all 40 rudiments (I own a book now)?
I really enjoy playing and am focused on doing what I need to do to progress. Help!
Do you need to stop kit work until you learn all 40 rudiments?

NO!!!!!

Knowing rudiments isn't something you learn in a few days or weeks or months it takes years to master them. rudiments are like the spoken language of drumming you can't play unless you are using them just as you can't speak without using the alphabet, but as you play even if you don't think you are you are using a form of rudiments. remember that a single stroke tom fill is a rudiment a double stroke snare or hi hat is a rudiment a big double stick hitting seperately on the drums is a rudiment so by you playing your kit your using rudiments just learn what rudiments that come easiest to you learn the name of them get them down to a science and the next great lick or sound that you acidently make on the kit find out which rudiment it is and add it to your tool box again you can't speak with out using the alphabet as to say you can't drum without using some form of rudiments. Along with that and after you settle that in your mind your main concern should be stick control... no trickery just learn to use them properly and don't let them use you.
 

MrMcFetus

New member
I say at least learn the major ones. Flams, singles, doubles, drags, paradiddles. Those ones, to me, seem necessary to learn. Then maybe learn your rolls, five strokes-seventeen strokes. You can use some of these in a fill on just the snare and end it with a rimshot. Then the last, more advanced ones, I don't think are really necessary, like triple ratamacues, inverted and double drag taps. So on and so fourth. But hey, learn 'em all! Just reading my poster I was thinking about some of the more advanced ones and applying them to the kit.
But at least learn flams, singles, doubles, paradiddles, and drags. Those are a must in my book.
 

jayusl

New member
Do you need to stop kit work until you learn all 40 rudiments?

NO!!!!!

Knowing rudiments isn't something you learn in a few days or weeks or months it takes years to master them. rudiments are like the spoken language of drumming you can't play unless you are using them just as you can't speak without using the alphabet, but as you play even if you don't think you are you are using a form of rudiments. remember that a single stroke tom fill is a rudiment a double stroke snare or hi hat is a rudiment a big double stick hitting seperately on the drums is a rudiment so by you playing your kit your using rudiments just learn what rudiments that come easiest to you learn the name of them get them down to a science and the next great lick or sound that you acidently make on the kit find out which rudiment it is and add it to your tool box again you can't speak with out using the alphabet as to say you can't drum without using some form of rudiments. Along with that and after you settle that in your mind your main concern should be stick control... no trickery just learn to use them properly and don't let them use you.[/quote]


Thanks for the advice, I'm still playing. I do seem to use a lot of the rudiments already in my playing. They don't exactly sound as fast as a drum corps. I have dedicated about 20 mins a day to go through some basic rudiments. Once I get more comfortable and can perform them faster and with more control, I will start adding more complicated ones.
 

Four Sticks

New member
I know drummers want to rush things, get down the basics and then join the band. One day will come when you have to know your rudiments, understand music, and the knowledge of how to produce a true, overall sound. For the percussion section, we are the backbeat, the heart and pulse of music. I suggest learning about 10-15 essential rudiments, and more importantly learn time signatures. You have to know 3/4, 4/4 cut time, etc, and understand what a whole note, half note, etc stand for. Ask yourself how far you want to take drumming, will you go pro, maybe be a studio musician? etc. If you are just going to be a basic drummer, have fun in a local band, and never plan on recording, I would then say just get basic drum lessons, and learn to play the drums by copying the sounds on the music you are playing to.
 

CASCINAIDRUMS

New member
Rudiments are very important

Yes you can play drums without knowing them but you want to being able to play in different ways and styles.knowing rudiments makes you a better drummer.
 

vampire9

New member
CASCINAIDRUMS":368wi5qg said:
Rudiments are very important

Yes you can play drums without knowing them but you want to being able to play in different ways and styles.knowing rudiments makes you a better drummer.
I tell my students this..."If you can build a house without a foundation, then you can drum without rudiments..." without rudiments, even the basic 26... you can never really learn stick control, accent to tap and stick hights. YES they are ALL important for drum kit, not just marching battery. Just think if you were to whail your arms around like a spastic, with no stick control. You'd never be able to play fast and controlled, or slow and meaningful. Rudiments are the alphabet of drumming... as someone said above.

Here in Australia (originally from Pittsburgh) they teach drum kit straight away, and it shits me like a curry!!! They do not teach proper stick control, but they DO teach some rudiments then show you how you can apply them to drum kit. ALL the focus is on drum kit, and not the basics. I tried to challenge this teaching with the "Aussie drum God" if you will and got told... "You may have a music degree, but you have NO idea what kids want" I almost threw up!!!! OK I vented enough... RUDIMENTS ARE THE CORNERSTONE OF ALL CIVILIZATION!!!!! and DRUMMING
 

Aruba27flr

New member
I had the same problem you did. I found the best thing to do is just keep at it. Keep practicing, and keep trying new things. It seems like the learning curve isn't really very curved in shape when it comes to drums. It has a sharp rise, and then plateaus for a while. eventually you hit another sharp rise, but it doesn't rise as long as the first one, and the plateau point is longer.
 

grey_fox

New member
I've never heard of the drag rudiment, how does it go?

i may actually know it might just call it something else
 

jayusl

New member
now that I'm learning rudiments, I have a new question. How fast should I comfortably be able to play them? My metronome only goes up to 250 bpm. I can play most of the stuff that I've been practicing at that rate pretty easily. Did I buy the wrong metronome?
 

drummert2k

New member
250 Bpm is flying through rudiments. unless you're playing them in a quater note or something. but if you're starting to get comfortable playing a rudiment, start putting 5 or 6 differant rudiments together back to back. or play one for a bar then go right into a differant one for a bar and do that. but practicing at between 100-160bpm is a good speed for pad work.
 

jayusl

New member
drummert2k":2alaz8h4 said:
250 Bpm is flying through rudiments. unless you're playing them in a quater note or something. but if you're starting to get comfortable playing a rudiment, start putting 5 or 6 differant rudiments together back to back. or play one for a bar then go right into a differant one for a bar and do that. but practicing at between 100-160bpm is a good speed for pad work.
I'm trying not to be a real dumb ass, but I'm probably doing something wrong. If I turn my Metronome to 250 bpm and play one stroke for every click/flash it makes is that not 250 bpm. I'm on time with it because I can't hear the click. I'm sure I am counting wrong because I can play singles like that with each hand easily. No I'm not a complete moron. I just don't have any musical background. Thanks for your help.
 

drummert2k

New member
en you set the metronome you're setting the BEATS per miniute, not strokes per minute. each click of the metronome is one beat, but with in that beat you have the triplets or sixteenth note which make up the rudiment. so if you have it set at 250 beats per minute and you want to play a paradiddle, you'll be playing four hits for every one click of your metronome.
 

jayusl

New member
drummert2k":pnbore6g said:
en you set the metronome you're setting the BEATS per miniute, not strokes per minute. each click of the metronome is one beat, but with in that beat you have the triplets or sixteenth note which make up the rudiment. so if you have it set at 250 beats per minute and you want to play a paradiddle, you'll be playing four hits for every one click of your metronome.
Thanks. Told you I had no clue. I don't even have any friends that play instruments. I'm old. This forum has helped me more than you probably know.
 
Top