Neil Peart's endorsement

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SmellsLikeIan

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It's all about the $$$$$$$

I know, we've heard it before, drum/cymbal companies don't give people money, just a price break.

Neil Peart is in a category of his own, however, and you can bet that Sabian offered him a stack of benjamins to sign a deal with them.
 

skitch

New member
SmellsLikeIan":16zu3gk2 said:
It's all about the $$$$$$$

I know, we've heard it before, drum/cymbal companies don't give people money, just a price break.

Neil Peart is in a category of his own, however, and you can bet that Sabian offered him a stack of benjamins to sign a deal with them.
I don't know about the money part, but the fact is that Neil is in an elite class of drummers who companies want and do take advantage (not exploit) of to gain a greater market share thru generating more sales. This is why guys like Emmet Smith and Michael Jordan get endorsements; it is about what the endorser can generate for the company. It isn't about making those guys famous.
 

Johnny Cat

New member
skitch":2zbm2wgn said:
SmellsLikeIan":2zbm2wgn said:
It's all about the $$$$$$$

I know, we've heard it before, drum/cymbal companies don't give people money, just a price break.

Neil Peart is in a category of his own, however, and you can bet that Sabian offered him a stack of benjamins to sign a deal with them.
I don't know about the money part, but the fact is that Neil is in an elite class of drummers who companies want and do take advantage (not exploit) of to gain a greater market share thru generating more sales. This is why guys like Emmet Smith and Michael Jordan get endorsements; it is about what the endorser can generate for the company. It isn't about making those guys famous.
Yeah, Neil does not seem to be the type to do things for the money. It's not like he's ever stuck for cash anyways. Then again, he has expensive taste, in things like Scotch, cars, motorcycles and eating out, not to mention all the money he spends on gas biking all over the continent. Maybe he does need the extra dough to make up for his heavy spending LOL!
 

SmellsLikeIan

New member
Johnny Cat":1w4lthk1 said:
skitch":1w4lthk1 said:
SmellsLikeIan":1w4lthk1 said:
It's all about the $$$$$$$

I know, we've heard it before, drum/cymbal companies don't give people money, just a price break.

Neil Peart is in a category of his own, however, and you can bet that Sabian offered him a stack of benjamins to sign a deal with them.
I don't know about the money part, but the fact is that Neil is in an elite class of drummers who companies want and do take advantage (not exploit) of to gain a greater market share thru generating more sales. This is why guys like Emmet Smith and Michael Jordan get endorsements; it is about what the endorser can generate for the company. It isn't about making those guys famous.
Yeah, Neil does not seem to be the type to do things for the money. It's not like he's ever stuck for cash anyways. Then again, he has expensive taste, in things like Scotch, cars, motorcycles and eating out, not to mention all the money he spends on gas biking all over the continent. Maybe he does need the extra dough to make up for his heavy spending LOL!

Yeah, I agree, JohnnyCat, it's not about making them famous, they already are. Most people on the street know who Neil Peart is (even if they mispronounce his name). That's why I believe he is one of the FEW people who are paid for their endorsements in addition to receiving free gear.

However, Skitch, as for not doing things for cash, sure he has enough money. But if someone came to your house, took you out to a nice dinner, told you they could recreate the sound of your current cymbal setup and change/add anything you might desire in addition to offering you $10, 000 more a year than the other guys, would you not say, "Sounds great."? A lot of people like to talk about how loyal they are to their favorite company, but the fact of the matter is that most of us will never face the test of cold, hard cash being waved in front of our faces. You can bet Neil Peart has.

Just look at the number of times he switched drum companies. Sonor, Ludwig, Pearl, and DW (at least, maybe there's more?). I'm not trying to get into an argument over which gear is better, and an argument can be made that any of those companies would build an exceptional kit for someone like Neil Peart, but I think he chooses based on who gives him a better deal and a bigger bonus. That's business. I don't know any of this to be fact, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I know I don't, and I'm assuming alot. But I think I may be right, at least in some respects.
 

m

New member
here's a pretty cool timeline of Neil's kits over the years:

http://andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/neil_drumkits.htm

I don't believe there were any Pearl or Sonor, but Slingerland and Tama played a pretty big part, aside from the others mentioned in the previous post.

I'm not trying to get into an argument over which gear is better, and an argument can be made that any of those companies would build an exceptional kit for someone like Neil Peart
I think that's a very good point. At that level of equipment, just about any of the big companies can build an awesome kit of excellent quality.
It pretty much has to come down to personal preference, and that can be based on many factors.
 

SmellsLikeIan

New member
m":334hav4r said:
here's a pretty cool timeline of Neil's kits over the years:

http://andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/neil_drumkits.htm

I don't believe there were any Pearl or Sonor, but Slingerland and Tama played a pretty big part, aside from the others mentioned in the previous post.

I'm not trying to get into an argument over which gear is better, and an argument can be made that any of those companies would build an exceptional kit for someone like Neil Peart
I think that's a very good point. At that level of equipment, just about any of the big companies can build an awesome kit of excellent quality.
It pretty much has to come down to personal preference, and that can be based on many factors.
I'm almost positive he played Sonor WWAAAAYYY back in the day. Wasn't there an MD ad with him and some Sonors and a Rolls Royce?
 

SmellsLikeIan

New member
K-you got me there. But my opinion on the rest still stands. If Nike can afford to pay Tiger Woods $10 million, I'm sure Sabian could afford to pay Neil Peart a few thousand, if not more. It's in their best interest.
 

Johnny Cat

New member
SmellsLikeIan":3nvh0wbl said:
K-you got me there. But my opinion on the rest still stands. If Nike can afford to pay Tiger Woods $10 million, I'm sure Sabian could afford to pay Neil Peart a few thousand, if not more. It's in their best interest.
Yeah, I agree they are definitely paying him to play them, but that could be an added bonus in his eyes. I'll ask him next time I'm talking to him at the show in September.... :lol:

Yeah right.... I wish! hahaha

As for Neil's drums over the years I'm not arguing either, but I do love trying to help shed light on some confusion. As far as I know he never played Sonor. Pity. I think they're great and he should check them out. But DWs kick ass too. He's never played Pearl either.

His first kit when he was thirteen consisted of Stewart toms with a Capri bass drum and 3 Ajax cymbals. When he was old enough to afford his dream kit at the time, he bought a Rogers kit with a couple of Zildjian cymbals and hats. But he didn't like the drum finish so he covered them in silver wallpaper. This is the kit he used to audition for Rush. He walked into the session with them stuffed into garbage cans because he couldn't afford cases, set them up while Geddy and Alex amusingly looked on (they had become Toronto area rockstars at this point with US airplay while he was still a nobody working in his Dad's farm supply store) and he proceeded to blow them away when he sat down to play.

With an advance from Mercury records shortly after they signed Rush, he went out and bought the Slingerland kit. He then switched to two different Tama kits before going to Ludwig Superclassics, and now DW.

This is coming from several different sources, including Andrew Olson's site, the book Merely Players by Robert Telleria, a few different Modern Drummer interviews, Neil's "A Work In Progress" DVD where he talks about a couple of kits, and of course, his third book, "Travelling Music".

I'm such a dork... :p
 

SmellsLikeIan

New member
Yeah, I was confusing the Pearl with the Tama (both Japanese anyhow!) Impressive knowledge of Neil's equipment and history.
 

Johnny Cat

New member
SmellsLikeIan":3pophpo6 said:
Yeah, I was confusing the Pearl with the Tama (both Japanese anyhow!) Impressive knowledge of Neil's equipment and history.
Thank you! :D

I have nothing better to do with my time it seems, between playing, and reading shit about Rush and The Beatles. I also spent time playing in a Rush tribute band, so I really tried to get inside his head to play his parts well. Rush fans are extremely critical of the tribute bands out there.
 

skitch

New member
SmellsLikeIan said:
However, Skitch, as for not doing things for cash, sure he has enough money. But if someone came to your house, took you out to a nice dinner, told you they could recreate the sound of your current cymbal setup and change/add anything you might desire in addition to offering you $10, 000 more a year than the other guys, would you not say, "Sounds great."? A lot of people like to talk about how loyal they are to their favorite company, but the fact of the matter is that most of us will never face the test of cold, hard cash being waved in front of our faces. You can bet Neil Peart has.

Just look at the number of times he switched drum companies. Sonor, Ludwig, Pearl, and DW (at least, maybe there's more?). I'm not trying to get into an argument over which gear is better, and an argument can be made that any of those companies would build an exceptional kit for someone like Neil Peart, but I think he chooses based on who gives him a better deal and a bigger bonus. That's business. I don't know any of this to be fact, so don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I know I don't, and I'm assuming alot. But I think I may be right, at least in some respects.

Smells,

You obviously didn't read what I wrote. And how do you know what Sabian, DW or anyone else did for Neil? Will he be making a royalty for the cymbals, drums and sticks which his name and likeness sells for the companies he endorses - most likely! And why shouldn't he? But don't marshal an argument based on something you "assume" is happening. And don't attack me for something, which I didn't write.

How do you know anything about Neil's personal life anyway?

You obviously don't know much about the gear he has played over the years as I don't recall Sonor or Pearl ever being brands that he used, since I was around during the early years of Rush, albeit a 13 year old! And I bet you didn't know that Steve Smith once used Paiste!

He came up playing a Slingerland set, and then went to Tama, then to Ludwig then to DW. There was an entire article in Modern Drummer which Neil himself wrote about why he chose the Ludwigs (1989 or 1990). I don't know why he left Zildjian but it may have been the passing of Armand and the subsequent "inheriting " of the Zildjian Company to Craggie. Neil may have just felt better about dealing with Armand's brother, Robert Zildjian (owner of Sabian and one-time the main artists relations officer for Zildjian and a heckuva nice guy to boot) than with his niece at Zildjian cymbals. Maybe it was the personal touch which is becoming more important than ever in this high-tech world!

Maybe Neil was excited about the fact that Sabian was willing to offer something a little different than the same old Ping Ride and New Beat hi hats that Neil has been using since birth!

Truth is, we will never really know why Neil left Zildjian or Tama or Ludwig. It could be a matter of support on the road and with Tama's poor attitude toward service; I can understand why Neil would leave! After all, at that time, Tama had a pretty impressive roster of artists selling drums for them: Stewart Copeland, Denny Carmassi (Heart), Frank Beard (ZZ Top) all who regularly outsold Rush in album sales. The Police, Heart and ZZ Top were regulars in the top 10 of hit songs during the 1980s. What was Rush doing at that time, sales-wise? Not even in the same ballpark as the three bands previously listed. WE all know who Rush is ; we're drummers and musicians! Outside of the musician/drummer circle, hw many "civilians" go to a Rush cincert?

This is also why Rush switched record labels in 1989. The new label was willing to help THEM sell more records. How often does a label do that?

So it takes a company with a vision or a passion or both. This is why Neil probably wound up at DW. Watch any video of John Good and the thing that comes across is his passion for the gear being better! That's what came across to me when I visited the DW plant in 2001. Neil switched from Ludwig, who made great drums but also lousy hardware, to DW who excels at both and was setting the gold standard at that time. He could have both great hardware and drums with great artist relations with a company run by a drummer (Don) and a drum enthusiast (John). He could have it all with one company!

Ever look at the drummers DW has on their roster and ask why? It is because these guys love music and are drummers; they are not accountants - but I digress!

One of the things which most drummers don't realize the tremendous beating a drum kit takes on the road. And I don't mean from the playing aspect; I mean from being put in the cases, loaded into a semi, being pulled out of the cases and set-up night after night! I have some idea as one of my kits is starting to look a little frazzled! This is stuff that you won't see, even from the second row. I do remember Rush being in OKC right after Neil switched to Ludwig but was still using Tama stands. In the middle of a song, the snare stand broke! Solution: drum tech, bring me another snare stand! This is why bands with big tours get so much gear; they need it in case something breaks in the middle of a show on a Sunday night in "who knows where a drum shop is in Oklahoma City and will it be open" land!

But to sit there and claim that it was all about the money? It sounds as though you are a little jealous, bitter and angry. And you have painted one of the most prolific drummers in history as some sort of mercenary!

Am I the number one Neil Peart fan - probably not. I stopped buying Rush albums at a Show of Hands because I got into two drummers that Neil said he likes in an interview in 1989, Phil Gould (Level 42) and Manu Katche ( Peter Gabriel, Sting). But I do admire a band which has stuck it out for 34 years together and stood by their principles of not just commercializing their sound for the sake of more record sales. Many rock bands from the 1970s tried commercializing in the 1980s world but failed.
 

skitch

New member
Johnny Cat":jw5476c5 said:
SmellsLikeIan":jw5476c5 said:
K-you got me there. But my opinion on the rest still stands. If Nike can afford to pay Tiger Woods $10 million, I'm sure Sabian could afford to pay Neil Peart a few thousand, if not more. It's in their best interest.
Yeah, I agree they are definitely paying him to play them, but that could be an added bonus in his eyes. I'll ask him next time I'm talking to him at the show in September.... :lol:

Yeah right.... I wish! hahaha

As for Neil's drums over the years I'm not arguing either, but I do love trying to help shed light on some confusion. As far as I know he never played Sonor. Pity. I think they're great and he should check them out. But DWs kick ass too. He's never played Pearl either.

His first kit when he was thirteen consisted of Stewart toms with a Capri bass drum and 3 Ajax cymbals. When he was old enough to afford his dream kit at the time, he bought a Rogers kit with a couple of Zildjian cymbals and hats. But he didn't like the drum finish so he covered them in silver wallpaper. This is the kit he used to audition for Rush. He walked into the session with them stuffed into garbage cans because he couldn't afford cases, set them up while Geddy and Alex amusingly looked on (they had become Toronto area rockstars at this point with US airplay while he was still a nobody working in his Dad's farm supply store) and he proceeded to blow them away when he sat down to play.

With an advance from Mercury records shortly after they signed Rush, he went out and bought the Slingerland kit. He then switched to two different Tama kits before going to Ludwig Superclassics, and now DW.

This is coming from several different sources, including Andrew Olson's site, the book Merely Players by Robert Telleria, a few different Modern Drummer interviews, Neil's "A Work In Progress" DVD where he talks about a couple of kits, and of course, his third book, "Travelling Music".

I'm such a dork... :p
Excellent...but did you know that he didn't have a Hi hat stand for quite some time?
 

Johnny Cat

New member
Yeah I think I heard about that. Wasn't that when he was with his high school band "The Eternal Triangle" and wrote LSD Forever? LOL! Or was it the Rogers kit before Rush? Correct me if I'm wrong.

The Eternal Triangle. What a great name!
 

SmellsLikeIan

New member
skitch":f1jmubaj said:
Smells,

You obviously didn't read what I wrote. And how do you know what Sabian, DW or anyone else did for Neil? Will he be making a royalty for the cymbals, drums and sticks which his name and likeness sells for the companies he endorses - most likely! And why shouldn't he? But don't marshal an argument based on something you "assume" is happening. And don't attack me for something, which I didn't write.

How do you know anything about Neil's personal life anyway?

You obviously don't know much about the gear he has played over the years as I don't recall Sonor or Pearl ever being brands that he used, since I was around during the early years of Rush, albeit a 13 year old! And I bet you didn't know that Steve Smith once used Paiste!

He came up playing a Slingerland set, and then went to Tama, then to Ludwig then to DW. There was an entire article in Modern Drummer which Neil himself wrote about why he chose the Ludwigs (1989 or 1990). I don't know why he left Zildjian but it may have been the passing of Armand and the subsequent "inheriting " of the Zildjian Company to Craggie. Neil may have just felt better about dealing with Armand's brother, Robert Zildjian (owner of Sabian and one-time the main artists relations officer for Zildjian and a heckuva nice guy to boot) than with his niece at Zildjian cymbals. Maybe it was the personal touch which is becoming more important than ever in this high-tech world!

Maybe Neil was excited about the fact that Sabian was willing to offer something a little different than the same old Ping Ride and New Beat hi hats that Neil has been using since birth!

Truth is, we will never really know why Neil left Zildjian or Tama or Ludwig. It could be a matter of support on the road and with Tama's poor attitude toward service; I can understand why Neil would leave! After all, at that time, Tama had a pretty impressive roster of artists selling drums for them: Stewart Copeland, Denny Carmassi (Heart), Frank Beard (ZZ Top) all who regularly outsold Rush in album sales. The Police, Heart and ZZ Top were regulars in the top 10 of hit songs during the 1980s. What was Rush doing at that time, sales-wise? Not even in the same ballpark as the three bands previously listed. WE all know who Rush is ; we're drummers and musicians! Outside of the musician/drummer circle, hw many "civilians" go to a Rush cincert?

This is also why Rush switched record labels in 1989. The new label was willing to help THEM sell more records. How often does a label do that?

So it takes a company with a vision or a passion or both. This is why Neil probably wound up at DW. Watch any video of John Good and the thing that comes across is his passion for the gear being better! That's what came across to me when I visited the DW plant in 2001. Neil switched from Ludwig, who made great drums but also lousy hardware, to DW who excels at both and was setting the gold standard at that time. He could have both great hardware and drums with great artist relations with a company run by a drummer (Don) and a drum enthusiast (John). He could have it all with one company!

Ever look at the drummers DW has on their roster and ask why? It is because these guys love music and are drummers; they are not accountants - but I digress!

One of the things which most drummers don't realize the tremendous beating a drum kit takes on the road. And I don't mean from the playing aspect; I mean from being put in the cases, loaded into a semi, being pulled out of the cases and set-up night after night! I have some idea as one of my kits is starting to look a little frazzled! This is stuff that you won't see, even from the second row. I do remember Rush being in OKC right after Neil switched to Ludwig but was still using Tama stands. In the middle of a song, the snare stand broke! Solution: drum tech, bring me another snare stand! This is why bands with big tours get so much gear; they need it in case something breaks in the middle of a show on a Sunday night in "who knows where a drum shop is in Oklahoma City and will it be open" land!

But to sit there and claim that it was all about the money? It sounds as though you are a little jealous, bitter and angry. And you have painted one of the most prolific drummers in history as some sort of mercenary!

Am I the number one Neil Peart fan - probably not. I stopped buying Rush albums at a Show of Hands because I got into two drummers that Neil said he likes in an interview in 1989, Phil Gould (Level 42) and Manu Katche ( Peter Gabriel, Sting). But I do admire a band which has stuck it out for 34 years together and stood by their principles of not just commercializing their sound for the sake of more record sales. Many rock bands from the 1970s tried commercializing in the 1980s world but failed.

Okay, sorry. I mixed up responses. My response to Johnny Cat should have been directed toward you. My mistake.

But Jesus Effin Christ lay off, dude. I never claimed to be the biggest Rush fan ever, but in no way am I jealous, bitter or angry. I also said in my post that I was merely speculating on this matter. I never claimed to know a damn thing about Neil's personal life, nor do I care to. And I could give 2 shits less to know that Steve Smith played Paiste. I understand that gear takes a beating on the road, I've been playing over 120 shows a year now for the past three, and before that I averaged around 80 most years, but I have been playing the same custom maple kit for over 10 years. With the same cymbals. And the same stands. Until last year most of the shows were 4 sets. None of my stuff is broken, quite the opposite in fact. So you won't convince me that he switched companies because shit wore out all the time. All I was trying to say is that there was likely a large sum of money involved, and you apparently agreed. But you or I will likely never know what it's like to have that kind of money waved at us for endorsing a product and the fact is that to me, Neil (and many other drummers as well) has switched companies enough times that while I'm sure the gear he uses is top notch, and quality is an issue, money also weighs in rather heavily. Go buy yourself some Paragons......I'm done.
 

skitch

New member
SmellsLikeIan":ug94m57e said:
Okay, sorry. I mixed up responses. My response to Johnny Cat should have been directed toward you. My mistake.

But Jesus Effin Christ lay off, dude. I never claimed to be the biggest Rush fan ever, but in no way am I jealous, bitter or angry. I also said in my post that I was merely speculating on this matter. I never claimed to know a damn thing about Neil's personal life, nor do I care to. And I could give 2 shits less to know that Steve Smith played Paiste. I understand that gear takes a beating on the road, I've been playing over 120 shows a year now for the past three, and before that I averaged around 80 most years, but I have been playing the same custom maple kit for over 10 years. With the same cymbals. And the same stands. Until last year most of the shows were 4 sets. None of my stuff is broken, quite the opposite in fact. So you won't convince me that he switched companies because shit wore out all the time. All I was trying to say is that there was likely a large sum of money involved, and you apparently agreed. But you or I will likely never know what it's like to have that kind of money waved at us for endorsing a product and the fact is that to me, Neil (and many other drummers as well) has switched companies enough times that while I'm sure the gear he uses is top notch, and quality is an issue, money also weighs in rather heavily. Go buy yourself some Paragons......I'm done.
Smells,

I never agreed with you on the large sums of money thing. And you need to go back and reread some of the very statements you made. "You can bet"?

I play upwards of 300 shows a year and most, if not all, are four sets. As for Tama, I used them from 1992 to 2002, ten years. Their hardware was always needing to be fixed. Mostly because Tama chose to use cheap, white metal in many of the load-bearing areas. This would be where threads are located and tightened up. I became an expert on fixing Tama stand in those ten years. And as I said, I was there when Neil's snare stand broke. Right in the middle of a concert.

You did state in a matter of fact way that large sums of cash were involved. Now, you are saying that "likely" a large sum of money was involved.

Neil is far from a "product hopper". In 34 years he has changed drum brands 3 times and cymbal companies once. The change from Slingerland to Tama was at a time when birch was the big thing. Tama's Superstar line was made of birch at that time.

Drum kits wear out because of being handled every night and slammed around in the cases in a semi trailer, from being removed from the cases from mic cables being dragged across them and the like. This also how guys like the Drum Doctor, Russ Garfield stay in business. Not only as a cartage service, but to repair worn out drums with great sentimental value to their owners.

Like I said, Neil is probably getting a royalty for the cymbals he sells for Sabian as well as a royalty for the sticks he sells for Promark. The royalty for his Paragons would be similiar to the royalties he gets for being the songwriter (lyricist) credited for most of Ruish's songs, which is probably what pays for his Scotch and his motorcycle journeys, as brought up by someone else.

As I stated in my prior post, I am not a Rush fan. But I don't like your tone towards drummers who get endorsements and have seen success and I don't care for your filthy language and bad attitude towards me. This is a great way (note the sacrcasm) to win friends over. isn't it?

And I really don't need your permission to buy whatever cymbals I want.
 

Johnny Cat

New member
skitch":1kkvyba7 said:
. This also how guys like the Drum Doctor, Russ Garfield stay in business. Not only as a cartage service, but to repair worn out drums with great sentimental value to their owners.
Kudos for mentioning the Drum Doctor! I think this is the first time I've ever seen him and his business mentioned on here. That guy is a god send to touring and recording drummers everywhere. More people should know about the trouble the go to, to do what they do best.

I have not had experience with him myself, but have seen, read and heard about him and his business, and so many artists and engineers alike praising him.
 

Gretz

New member
He's not getting paid.
Contrary to popular belief musicians never get paid to play gear.
They may get FREE gear.... but they don't get paid.

Music endorsements are not like Sneaker endorsements for athletes.

I don't know of any musician that gets paid to play gear, it's not how the industry is set up.

Endorsement contracts usually work on a year to year basis and anything can happen in that time period... i've known guys that played one particular guitar or drum for many years and left the company they were with strictly because there was an employee turnonver and the new A & R person at the company wasn't doing a good job and left them high and dry.

With one simple employee change an entire company's priorities can change and an artist that was getting great attention and his/her needs filled can be shuffled to the bottom.

When you're on tour and you are used to a certain level of help from a company you endorse, it can be crippling to not be able to have gear ready for a tour that you were counting on.

It's very possible that Neil wasn't happy with Zildjian and decided that Sabian was a better home. Sabian makes out because they get a new line of cymblas, his name etc. Zildjian benefitted from having neil on board for as long as they did. I don't think anyone's feelings were hurt. This kind of change happens all the time for these companies. It's part of "the biz" as they say.

Keep in mind also, a few years back Neil has himself stated that he started from scratch and re-evaluated his playing and set up. Not only did he change cymbals but he also changed drum companies. It seems to me that he was trying to start over on all fronts.
 
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