Members of the forum. A little info needed on "groove&q

Howepirate

New member
I'm researching Sgaretts definition of groove which has opened my eyes a bit. Thank you by the way.

To me i thought that groove was either complex or simple and had a feel to it that filled the song or a certain context with the ability to be used in a song. SGarrett made a point that there was an emotional and serious dynamic part of it as well.

I'm still pondering on it but i'm beginning to get the concept. You can just see it in the player. When its hard hes fighting it and he puts soul and emotion into making it hard, technical and full of different percussive elements yet manages to keep strong hits and good dynamics. The other one is where your just in a good pocket and your not playing to technical but your feelin it out and having a great time with it.

I was just watching this vid and i want you guys (especially SGarett) to tell me how and if it grooves or not..... (yes its another derek roddy vid...come on hes my fav drummer).

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See i think Derek is missing the element of the pocket grooving because he played metal so long without much dynamics, diversity and feel ( no offense cuz i play it too).

Hmmm. Just something i'm pondering on. Thoughts?
 

Fleabear

New member
I think 1 thing that people mistake...is thinking that saying somebody doesn't seem like they've got the "groove"..is the same as saying they aren't talented...or don't play well. That's not the point...at least not what I mean when I say that. This guy is a great player....no doubt about it...and obviously has the chops and talent to back it up. What I didn't see is anything that jumped out at me and made me say....."man.....listening to that makes me feel good about it".....does that make sense? I guess I always go back to my big 3....Steve Smith, Jeff Porcaro, and John Bonham. All 3 of them could "bring the noise" so to speak...when it was called for. But the gist of their playing was rooted and based in "feel"......not how many notes they could throw in...or how fast they could play. That seems to be my meaning of "groove".....like I said before....is the "pocket"...the essence and building block of a piece.....with accents thrown in at transition points to move it forward. Groove to me does not mean...playing random patterns...or fills for the sake of playing them..with no basis in any somewhat structured time.

And there are guys who are "technical" that I think groove bigtime. Listen to some of the Peart, Alan White, Portnoy...etc stuff. Not that a lot of their stuff is overly technical...but even when they are being "technical" in their playing.....to me...it still has some "groove" to it. Okay..I've used up my quota of "groove" today...I'm done.
 

dave lynch

New member
1st of all the guy can flat out play IMO..The vidio was edited and it's hard to say..I'm sure he can groove if he wants to but that was more of a free style solo deal..So as far as a groove overall only here and there, but once again the video was edited..I luv his snare..The grace notes are real nice and slightly open..!!
 

TheYardstick

New member
Howepirate":3q3lf3lk said:
I'm researching Sgaretts definition of groove which has opened my eyes a bit. Thank you by the way.

To me i thought that groove was either complex or simple and had a feel to it that filled the song or a certain context with the ability to be used in a song. SGarrett made a point that there was an emotional and serious dynamic part of it as well.

I'm still pondering on it but i'm beginning to get the concept. You can just see it in the player. When its hard hes fighting it and he puts soul and emotion into making it hard, technical and full of different percussive elements yet manages to keep strong hits and good dynamics. The other one is where your just in a good pocket and your not playing to technical but your feelin it out and having a great time with it.

I was just watching this vid and i want you guys (especially SGarett) to tell me how and if it grooves or not..... (yes its another derek roddy vid...come on hes my fav drummer).

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/BdZwx-xE-GQ"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/BdZwx-xE-GQ" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>

See i think Derek is missing the element of the pocket grooving because he played metal so long without much dynamics, diversity and feel ( no offense cuz i play it too).

Hmmm. Just something i'm pondering on. Thoughts?
Groove is such a loose term anyways, don't stress over it.
 

SGarrett

New member
Wow. Thanks, man. Fleabear did a good job of explaining but I'll add what I can.

First, he can flat out play. No questions about it. But there's no "roll" to his "rock". What you play, to an extent, isn't as important as how you play it. A groove feels good because it has a bit of a swing to it. Rock evolved from jazz and a lot of the early rock drummers were jazz trained. If you listen to '50s/'60s music you can hear that swing. It feels good and makes you want to move. Moving along, when you listen to real Latin music you hear all kinds of layered percussion that locks together in set forms and it all swings like a mofo. That's groove. But, in order to get to that point you have to be feeling the music which means you have to be relaxed and not worrying about what you're doing. You can play on top of, in front of, or behind the beat and it'll groove as long as you've got a little "roll" to your "rock". One the absolute best things you can do is start listening to as much different music as you can.
 

Howepirate

New member
Thanks guys. Most of the time Derek doesnt just put up "solo" videos. He just puts out different ideas for drummers to think about when playing. Just like he did when he was playing with hate eternal and he did the death metal vids. They were more instructional than solo.

This is some of the best and funnest playing ive seen on youtube:

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Been trying to emulate this guys stuff for a while now. So this to me has a good feel to it does it not?
 

Lancelot Frosty

New member
Howepirate":3dsqn1xm said:
Thanks guys. Most of the time Derek doesnt just put up "solo" videos. He just puts out different ideas for drummers to think about when playing. Just like he did when he was playing with hate eternal and he did the death metal vids. They were more instructional than solo.

This is some of the best and funnest playing ive seen on youtube:

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Been trying to emulate this guys stuff for a while now. So this to me has a good feel to it does it not?
Wow.
Thanks for the vid, Howe.
Never seen him before, but he's amazing.
Just the kind of style I like.
I agree with you on saying it's got a good feel.
 

Fleabear

New member
Howepirate":1vx9ylwd said:
Thanks guys. Most of the time Derek doesnt just put up "solo" videos. He just puts out different ideas for drummers to think about when playing. Just like he did when he was playing with hate eternal and he did the death metal vids. They were more instructional than solo.
I can tell you anything about anything regarding drums..except for when it comes to the Death Metal...Hardcore Metal...Thrash Metal...etc..etc...whatever term is used. Don't get me wrong....I can appreciate the talent...the speed...etc with a lot of these guys....but again..there hasn't been much that jumped out and made me "feel good about it"...or that it seems "grooving" to me. And as said before...groove is a "loose" term..with different explanations for different people. I do think that you'll find most "older" players think groove is something different than a lot of "younger" players. Maybe this will make a little more sense if I use Vinnie Paul in my description. Pantera rocked...plain and simple. When I hear "Cowboys From Hell", "Psycho Holiday", "Walk" (even the "not 4/4" ending) and a bunch of other songs....Vinnie is groovin'...no doubt! A lot of his stuff is not about "the speed" or the "technicality" at all....but that fucker locks it right in the pocket...and then puts it in your face when it's time. On the other hand....Steve Smith played on Tony Macalpine's "Edge Of Insanity" album. Check out "Edge of Insanity" or "Wheel Of Fortune" from that album. Smith is playing some fast double pedal stuff...and fills all over the place....and it still is "groove" to me. A big difference from what I've heard from guys like Derek Roddy. Again....all those metal guys are talented as hell...that's not the issue. It's just a different style of playing. In my opinion....Joey Jordison doens't groove much...but Matt McDonough does....
 

iatemygoat

New member
Fleabear":qp8m882d said:
Howepirate":qp8m882d said:
Thanks guys. Most of the time Derek doesnt just put up "solo" videos. He just puts out different ideas for drummers to think about when playing. Just like he did when he was playing with hate eternal and he did the death metal vids. They were more instructional than solo.
I can tell you anything about anything regarding drums..except for when it comes to the Death Metal...Hardcore Metal...Thrash Metal...etc..etc...whatever term is used. quote]

haha WTF? wow.
 

SGarrett

New member
That dude rocks. And Fleabear pretty much nailed it again. Using that clip as the example. You can hear "groove" in his playing even when he's playing a lot of notes and then you can hear him lock into a groove in a few places. It's kind of like the word "cool" in the sense that the way it's used determines its meaning.

Check this guy out.

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http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user= ... cher76&p=r
 

Howepirate

New member
SGarrett":342ah6nf said:
That dude rocks. And Fleabear pretty much nailed it again. Using that clip as the example. You can hear "groove" in his playing even when he's playing a lot of notes and then you can hear him lock into a groove in a few places. It's kind of like the word "cool" in the sense that the way it's used determines its meaning.

Check this guy out.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fF6fvmH2s7s"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fF6fvmH2s7s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user= ... cher76&p=r

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

And i thought i was somewhat getting my chops down.

Ive got a lot to learn. :| :| :| :|
 

Howepirate

New member
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Some of these seem a lot more groovy but the videos are still chopped up.

I think im gonna request on his forum that he make a video of him just playing in one tempo without cutting up the video and doing as many different pattern variations and stuff while grooving....
 

Fleabear

New member
iatemygoat":1ux9j0bc said:
Fleabear":1ux9j0bc said:
Howepirate":1ux9j0bc said:
Thanks guys. Most of the time Derek doesnt just put up "solo" videos. He just puts out different ideas for drummers to think about when playing. Just like he did when he was playing with hate eternal and he did the death metal vids. They were more instructional than solo.
I can tell you anything about anything regarding drums..except for when it comes to the Death Metal...Hardcore Metal...Thrash Metal...etc..etc...whatever term is used. quote]

haha WTF? wow.
Okay Iatemygoat...ya got me on that one. I made way too broad of a statement there. I'm lucky that I easily retain information about music and drums, the careers of musicians.....with regards to lyrics..dates...musicians....who played what when...producers....bands etc,etc,etc. I count myself out only in the fields of "death metal" and for the most part Jazz....only because those are the 2 styles that I never could get interested in. More than likely..due to the fact that I've never really enjoyed either.....and when I've attempted to play anything close to either one of those styles...I've choked it bigtime! I wasn't trying to come off like a pompous ass....but now that I read it again.....I have no doub that I did!

SGarrett has a good point comparing "groove" with "cool". Everybody has their own definition. And in the end....everybody should play what they play and enjoy it....and damn the definitions! :)
 

SGarrett

New member
Howepirate":2j10glko said:
SGarrett":2j10glko said:
That dude rocks. And Fleabear pretty much nailed it again. Using that clip as the example. You can hear "groove" in his playing even when he's playing a lot of notes and then you can hear him lock into a groove in a few places. It's kind of like the word "cool" in the sense that the way it's used determines its meaning.

Check this guy out.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fF6fvmH2s7s"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fF6fvmH2s7s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user= ... cher76&p=r

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

And i thought i was somewhat getting my chops down.

Ive got a lot to learn. :| :| :| :|
Yeah, Mike used to be one of the drum teachers at the shop I worked at. He used to play for a band named Simon Says. The link I posted below the video has some videos of him playing with them along with Filter. Mike's the same age as me but he's been playing since he was four and has taken lessons from some of the best in the industry. He can play just as fast on his thighs and he only uses a single kick pedal. His technique is phenomenal. But if you ask both him and the older cats, they'll say even he has a long way to go. It's a life-long quest.
 

Lancelot Frosty

New member
SGarrett":2us3w1vo said:
Howepirate":2us3w1vo said:
SGarrett":2us3w1vo said:
That dude rocks. And Fleabear pretty much nailed it again. Using that clip as the example. You can hear "groove" in his playing even when he's playing a lot of notes and then you can hear him lock into a groove in a few places. It's kind of like the word "cool" in the sense that the way it's used determines its meaning.

Check this guy out.

<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fF6fvmH2s7s"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fF6fvmH2s7s" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
http://youtube.com/profile_videos?user= ... cher76&p=r

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

And i thought i was somewhat getting my chops down.

Ive got a lot to learn. :| :| :| :|
Yeah, Mike used to be one of the drum teachers at the shop I worked at. He used to play for a band named Simon Says. The link I posted below the video has some videos of him playing with them along with Filter. Mike's the same age as me but he's been playing since he was four and has taken lessons from some of the best in the industry. He can play just as fast on his thighs and he only uses a single kick pedal. His technique is phenomenal. But if you ask both him and the older cats, they'll say even he has a long way to go. It's a life-long quest.
Wow.
I'm at a loss for words. XD
 

Howepirate

New member
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:



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Rob the Drummer

New member
You know, Derek's a good drummer and all, but damn, there are tons out there better than him. We should just link this site to the Derek Roddy forums and call this site, drums my roddy. :lol: Seriously though, check out some other drummers.

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<object width="425" height="350"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PEJM_7BR5Xw"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PEJM_7BR5Xw" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"></embed></object>
 

Rob Crisp

New member
Mike just became one of my fave drummers!

Technically he's great, but what he plays in some of those solo's etc is really creative.
 

Empyrean Drums

New member
Rob the Drummer":25sy2yb0 said:
You know, Derek's a good drummer and all, but damn, there are tons out there better than him. We should just link this site to the Derek Roddy forums and call this site, drums my roddy. :lol: Seriously though, check out some other drummers.

The kid can like whoever he wants.
I noticed you never chime in with this crap everytime someone mentions Neil Peart or John Bonham, why not? It's OK to obsess about them, but not Derrek Roddy?
 
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