maybe I'm screwed up.......

john_bonham73

New member
I along with the bass player and lead guitarist just got kicked out of a band.My reason,I was told was that I didnt play the same way twice(which I am not denying in trying to fit into the groove that day).This band I got kicked out from had an ever changing groove due to the fact the rhythm guitarist changed his play(practically every practice) or played so safe he was absent.And the bass player never took time to work with the drummer(me). All this happened while trying to record a live CD without a click.Your thoughts please,and be straight forward peeps!! Thank You!
 

drummert2k

New member
if 3 members got kicked out of a band at the same time, it sounds like a bit of an ego trip on the person or people who kicked you all out. not playing the same way twice is usually fine unless its a huge dramatic difference every time. if you change a fill in one part or add an extra kick, thats something that a musician should be able to follow and shouldnt even phase them.... unless they arent confident with their part. which brings up the next thing. one member giving another member an idea or saying "hey, could you try this" is a lot differant that saying "do it this way everythime" i found from experience that unless your in a cover band who tried to play the songs 100% like the disc, a lot of people who arent at a high enough level of playing need everything to be the same way everytime or else it actually makes them mees up their part.

i'd say its not your loss. take the guys that got kicked out and form something there. you already have the playing experience together. screw who kicked you guys all out for trying to do what you want to rather than what he wanted.
 

Gaddabout

New member
It sounds like chaos found order. If you're in the studio without a click, it's because y'all are confident in the amount of work you've put in practicing and communicating with each other, working out every bar of every song. At least, that's what I'd assume. If y'all just went into the studio to see what would happen ...

... this is the result I'd expect.
 

john_bonham73

New member
I thought the same thing as what you said as far as the person who kicked us out.And the changes were very subtle without compromising tempo or integrity of the tune.During our practices up until CD recording,the grooves were everchanging(even though I stressed for everything to be finalized before the studio) and of course once you get inside the recording studio...you hear things differently.And sure as anything as these tunes were being played and recorded,I stressed more on tempo and timing rather than recreating a roll or whatever that wouldnt match as it did the last time we played it.Bottomline,some of the members were not ready for the studio and the Ike Turner(do it right or else) guy in my band made things really sour in a situation that is supposed to be fun.Thanks for your input..anybody else?
 

EKoolaidsDrummer

New member
Wow thats some deep !#?*.....

Yeah how do you expect to pull off a "LIVE" recording and the rythm section isnt in sync... A few rehearsals, something...... That's a sign of unreal expectations, or maybe they found someone else that could "fit" their vibe and didnt want to tell you... Very unprofessional if you ask me... Unless you have worked with a drummer before LIVE performance (ESPECIALLY RECORDED ONES...) have to strive for PERFECTION, because you cant rewind that moment like in the studio.....

I know it didnt feel good at the moment but, hey you cant work with unrealistic people.... Who goes off and tries to record a "LIVE" recording w/a new unrehearsed drummer?????
 

john_bonham73

New member
I wasnt new...but I might as well have been. I learned the tunes with through the rhythm guitar player.At the time,the bass player was out due to some surgery.Once he got better,I had already learned the tunes.And I had hoped to work with him,but that never happened.Im not quite sure why,I requested to a number of times.We played a bunch of shows with good crowd response.But when it was decided to go and record,I suggested to get surgical and take apart the tunes.That is when the rhythms started changing on a play by play basis.No one could ever get used to the grooves and what-not.And then when it got to the studio...thats when I got most of the blame as mentioned above.It was like I was supposed to play the same thing while everything else was changing around me.When that happens,it makes the drummer stand out like a sore thumb,dont you agree.It makes us sound out of the groove and out of time.
 

DrummerByron

New member
What I have found in my 20 years of experience is that recording in a studio can make or break a band. This is a true test of the bands cohesiveness and a lot of emotions will surface. Mainly because recording in a professional studio is expensive and time consuming. Everyone is under an intense amount of stress and everyone wants the final product to sound the best it can. When you go into a studio you want all your songs to be set in stone and it is not the time to change a rhythm or tempo or really anything else. You want to get your tracks down as fast and as accurate as possible. And there will be things you may have to let go. The last time I recorded I was on my 4th take for my drum tracks and I whacked the snare mike because the engineer put it over the head on the top corner. I did not stop because it did not throw me off and when we listened to the recording it was in time, so we left it in. (Before Pro-Tools)
In your situation I would say your chief songwriter did not know what he wanted even going into the studio, which is unfortunate. His ego got over-inflated and he did not listen to the timekeeper. And not to sound conceded or anything, but the drummer is one of the most important members of a band. If we aren’t keeping time and the guitar player wants to change the rhythm the song will fall apart. Guitarists are a dime a dozen, but drummers are usually more rare. You should have no problem finding another band that would respect you for what you bring to the band.
Good Luck,
DB
 

DrummerByron

New member
Oh, sorry, I miss read it. A live recording can be even worse as far as stress goes. You still should not take it to heart because what I said in the above post still goes, the songs should be set and the band needs to be a team. Yes you still can to subtle drum riffs that aren’t the in the song normally, but you should play the songs as close to the original as possible just like you are in the studio. I’m not saying its grounds for termination if you do improve a little, but when you are recording anytime everyone is stress out as it is and you do need to play your part as close to the original as possible maybe even just for the fact that you could say “Hay I played my part right.” It’s selfish in a way, but you are covered when the sh*t hits the fan. It’s even more likely that the person/people who fires you was just looking for an excuse to do so. Not saying it’s you, but you don’t know what people (esp. guitar players) are thinking.
 

sp4zium

New member
And not to sound conceded or anything, but the drummer is one of the most important members of a band. If we aren’t keeping time and the guitar player wants to change the rhythm the song will fall apart. Guitarists are a dime a dozen, but drummers are usually more rare.
damn... where i come from... everybody plays drums and guitar... hell, there's only like 3 bassists at our school of 3000 people.
 

DrummerByron

New member
sp4zium":2zpb0h3f said:
And not to sound conceded or anything, but the drummer is one of the most important members of a band. If we aren’t keeping time and the guitar player wants to change the rhythm the song will fall apart. Guitarists are a dime a dozen, but drummers are usually more rare.
damn... where i come from... everybody plays drums and guitar... hell, there's only like 3 bassists at our school of 3000 people.
And that is great. I think that should be the norm, but it's not. I have found that it can be a constant struggle between the guitarist and drummer when there is a question of rhyhm, tempo, etc. I think that if more guitar players actually spend the time learning someting about drumming then it would be a better world in music. And vice-versa, I want to learn how to play the bass just to get in the head of the string section of a band. It's all about understanding and harmony.
 

SmellsLikeIan

New member
How long did you guys work on things before going into the studio? It sounds like at least a couple people didn't put in their share of group practice. I did a "live" studio recording (no click, one, maybe two takes on everything) a few years ago, and more recently a studio album done to a click. I would definitely say working with a click is better, because if you are comfortable and able to play along to a click, NO ONE can say that the time is your fault. Why did yall decide against a click? If it was because the bass or guitar player didn't want to, that shouldn't have been their decision. The engineer can put the click in any players headset, and can also take them out of someone's mix. If you weren't comfortable with it however, you should practice with one before the next time you go into a studio. All that being said, most problems are usually caused by the person doing the most bitching and moaning......
 

The Heel

New member
When you cant get with the bass player to create a solid foundation before you go into record... you are doomed.

Its that easy. Everything else you said doesnt matter.

Think about it.

If you cant get the backbeat of songs solid with the bass player before you record... Dont waste your time. Really.

Its like going into the studio with no lyrics written or no melodic hooks predetermined. It just doesnt make any sense at all. By the time you get to the studio you should not only have the rythms worked out, but you should have the hits and dynamics of each song worked out.

Whomever got you this studio time booked without even having the basement of the song built, is at fault here. And no one in the band had the common sense to say... "Hey guys... we're recording tomorrow night, how about we go over this tonight before we're paing X amount of dollars in the studio to do it."?

I would have not even allowed myself to be put in that position. I can not imagine an outcome that could have possibly been positive in absolutely any way at all.
 

DrummerByron

New member
SmellsLikeIan":1whhzic4 said:
How long did you guys work on things before going into the studio? It sounds like at least a couple people didn't put in their share of group practice. I did a "live" studio recording (no click, one, maybe two takes on everything) a few years ago, and more recently a studio album done to a click. I would definitely say working with a click is better, because if you are comfortable and able to play along to a click, NO ONE can say that the time is your fault. Why did yall decide against a click? If it was because the bass or guitar player didn't want to, that shouldn't have been their decision. The engineer can put the click in any players headset, and can also take them out of someone's mix. If you weren't comfortable with it however, you should practice with one before the next time you go into a studio. All that being said, most problems are usually caused by the person doing the most bitching and moaning......
I have not worked with a click in a professional studio. I tried to go along with a click once on a garage recording, but there were too many tempo changes in the song and we could not get the click track to change along, so that sucked. We rehearsed the songs about 2 months before we booked the studio and practiced 2 days before actually going in. It helped to take the 2 days off and have a break before going in. I would not be opposed to trying a click track, but I have never been comfortable with using one. I like to have some room to breath and be creative within the rhythm.
 

drummert2k

New member
using a click is not only to keep you in time but it really helps the others who wave to lay their track after you and the producer or engineer with any editing they have to do. punch ins and tightening stuff up on the engineers end is a million times easier when they have the refernce of the click to snap a section to.
 

The Heel

New member
If you are not comfortable using a click track you have bad internal meter.

Theres no cutting corners with a click track. It IS the truth. If you cant follow a click... then you need to put in the amount of practice that it takes to become comfortable with it. An unfortunate realism of what we do... is that if you can't play with a click... then you cant play with a (good) band.
 

john_bonham73

New member
thats just it.....the bass player never wanted to put time in with me.I think he just wanted me to play and then he was gonna work around me.And he was happy with that.So when it came to studio time,as the rhythm guitar was changing...the groove was changing,I felt I needed to adapt to that to make the tune jive.Which in turn changed his play.Remember I said earlier that I learned the tunes from the rhythm guitarist while the bass player was out from back surgery.I was being told by the engineer that I wasnt relaxing to the groove and it was my fault.Nevertheless,because of my subtle changes in my play to adapt to change....I got thrown out of the band.Thats always been the problem with drumming I hear from some of my drumming friends,when something is out of sync...its ALWAYS the drummers fault,lol.I originally wanted to click the session to eliminate ANY issues,but it got vetoed by 2 band members.Either way,Im out of the band...Im moving on,end of story.
 

Deanoatc

New member
drummert2k":2vm2ewz0 said:
if 3 members got kicked out of a band at the same time, it sounds like a bit of an ego trip on the person or people who kicked you all out. not playing the same way twice is usually fine unless its a huge dramatic difference every time. if you change a fill in one part or add an extra kick, thats something that a musician should be able to follow and shouldnt even phase them.... unless they arent confident with their part. which brings up the next thing. one member giving another member an idea or saying "hey, could you try this" is a lot differant that saying "do it this way everythime" i found from experience that unless your in a cover band who tried to play the songs 100% like the disc, a lot of people who arent at a high enough level of playing need everything to be the same way everytime or else it actually makes them mees up their part.

i'd say its not your loss. take the guys that got kicked out and form something there. you already have the playing experience together. screw who kicked you guys all out for trying to do what you want to rather than what he wanted.
I Agree with drummert2k. Its definately an ego trip. I have never got kicked out of a band. Even when I sucked, cuz you know we all did at once. Sounds like these guys are a bunch of assholes. They are not worth it. Go start your own project. These guys will get whats coming to them one day.
 
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