Grip...Am I wrong for thinking this?

SHOGUNWARRIOR32

New member
Ok..I'm new here and too lazy to see if this has been a recent topic. I've been playing for 20+ years and this has always been a peave of mine. I have a real problem when I see people tell other drummers that their grip is "wrong". I've defended countless drummers in different forums..including myself with this. I'm a firm believer that everyone's anatomy.. hands, arms, seating posture, sense of stick balance, etc. is different. I understand that teachers need to guide beginners on how to hold the stick whether match or traditional, finding the fulcrum, etc. .. but if someone has been playing for a while, even for a just few months, and developed a comfortable position where they play their best..whether it's toward the end of the stick or in the middle..whatever..shouldn't it be appreciated and respected rather than corrected to the liking of the critic and how comfortable the critic feels holding the stick? I always tell the person to watch Keith Moon play..he's got (had) the most abstract grip I've ever seen.. but he played his best with it..or even Dave Weckl during the early 90's..he held his stick all the way to the end of the stick in traditional grip..are they gonna tell these guys their grip is "wrong"? (well..can't tell Moon now).. i've been in these arguments with these "grip-professors" for as long as I can remember..even just recently in a post left on one of my weckl vids.

In summary.. I think it's great to offer suggestions or give ideas to try ..but don't declare someone as "wrong" in what they do or how they do it because it's not how "you" would do it. Music is art and self expression, not an Anatomy class that you can pass or fail. There is no wrong or right in true art.

Anyone else have an opinion on this?
 

cableman26

New member
I agree with you. But there's a couple of standard grips that offer the best balance. They're what is taught now because that's what was taught to the teachers. I'm matched grip myself and use my middle finger as the balance. That's because it's how I was taught, and it works best for me. But if I could find a more comfortable grip I'd use it in a minute.
 

dave lynch

New member
I'm totaly hip...when I 1st started I took a few lessons from a guy that had me holding the stick with a hard grip and up on the stick...later I ran into a kid that was real good and he told me to back off and hold the stick near the end for more wood...then years later my music Drum Class teacher told me to loosen up and open my grip and use the FU finger for the folcrum and that really helped..when it came down to it I ended up creating my own grip..Anyway for years I was trying to find what I liked and finally did..!!
 

SHOGUNWARRIOR32

New member
dave lynch":bluwp9bl said:
I'm totaly hip...when I 1st started I took a few lessons from a guy that had me holding the stick with a hard grip and up on the stick...later I ran into a kid that was real good and he told me to back off and hold the stick near the end for more wood...then years later my music Drum Class teacher told me to loosen up and open my grip and use the FU finger for the folcrum and that really helped..when it came down to it I ended up creating my own grip..Anyway for years I was trying to find what I liked and finally did..!!

Exactly my point...
 

BillRayDrums

New member
Learn the rules. When you know the rules, you are free to break them at will.

There is no "perfect grip". There are suggestions for achieving more power/leverage/fulcrum/dynamics/etc.... that can get you where you are going faster but all in all your grip is your thing, just like your fingerprint is. No two are alike.

My grip is strange because my back two fingers are in control of the stick which floats in my hand. Of course I don't use them 100% of the time but for general groove stuff I like to throw the stick down from the back of my hand.

Pinching up in the fronts of the hand is the epitome of tension creation, as playing from the back of your hand is the apogee of relaxation. When you can see it like a number scale from 0% to 100% (relaxation-tension) then you get a new perspective on where in your hand to balance from in order to achieve the dynamic you are seeking at that given moment.

Try it- grab a stick, then curl your little finger around it. Shake it in a way that you would strike a drum. Then one at a time add each finger. You will feel new points of balance reveal themselves to you with each added finger. Now keep all the fingers on the stick but pull from the original point of the back 2 fingers. That's my grip. It works for me. If it works for you, then I'm happy to help.
 

ctyjones

New member
I agree to a certain degree that a person shouldn't declare their opinion as fact, and anyone who does differently is "wrong". However, as far as grip is concerned, there are situations where a grip is handicapping the player. This was my situation until I started taking lessons. I was setting a fairly low threshold for my speed, fluidity, and endurance, and until someone more experienced than I was pointed that out and helped me correct it, I wasnt' able to break that limit. Many times, a small adjustment yields virtually immediate results. If I notice something like this on someone else, I aim more for the, "Hey try this out and see if it works for you..." approach rather than the "You're wrong and you should do this..." approach.
 

rlrrll

New member
Billy Ray's post is right on the money . . . again!

I've found that there are more problems with young drummers set-up's than their grip's. Snare drums a crazy angles, thrones to high for their height and generally setting up the drums in ways that just make them harder to play. I'll question them on that before I will on their grip, unless their grip is totally out of wack.

rlrrll
 

SGarrett

New member
I don't think where you hold the stick is anywhere near as important as how you hold the stick for what you're playing. Think about it like this. Just because it's comfortable to slouch doesn't mean it's the correct posture. You have to find your own spot within the rules, like BillyRay said.
 

Atmerrill

New member
Sorry to be the wet blanket here, but yeah - I disagree. Look, when I see (as I did this week and many times before) young kids in their teens with wrist splints on (due to being diagnosed with Carpeltunel Syndrom) because they've been cutting wood with sticks that are too heavy and because they have piss poor technique, I tend to feel that somewhere, some drummer let this kid down - probably because they didn't want to say something.

What price does good technique have? Hard to believe (for me more so) but I've got almost 40 years on the tubs. And, I've got some pretty impressive chops. Do I wear splints? No. Like others, I took the time to develop "proper" technique," and others took the time to stop and offer suggestions and feedback. It's why I (and all the others like me) can sit and play for hours. It's why I should be able to continue playing for more years down the road.

How tragic to see kids stopped in their tracks due to indifference. <a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxmk502YYUS%2526i%253D36%252F36%255F1%255F6%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_6.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0"><img border="0" src="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252Fnocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egif%253Fi%253D36%252F36_1_6/image.gif"></a>
 

BillRayDrums

New member
Atmerrill":2y1tpjdz said:
Sorry to be the wet blanket here, but yeah - I disagree. Look, when I see (as I did this week and many times before) young kids in their teens with wrist splints on (due to being diagnosed with Carpeltunel Syndrom) because they've been cutting wood with sticks that are too heavy and because they have piss poor technique, I tend to feel that somewhere, some drummer let this kid down - probably because they didn't want to say something.

What price does good technique have? Hard to believe (for me more so) but I've got almost 40 years on the tubs. And, I've got some pretty impressive chops. Do I wear splints? No. Like others, I took the time to develop "proper" technique," and others took the time to stop and offer suggestions and feedback. It's why I (and all the others like me) can sit and play for hours. It's why I should be able to continue playing for more years down the road.

How tragic to see kids stopped in their tracks due to indifference. <a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxmk502YYUS%2526i%253D36%252F36%255F1%255F6%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_6.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0"><img border="0" src="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252Fnocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egif%253Fi%253D36%252F36_1_6/image.gif"></a>
I feel ya Alden. That's why I said "learn the rules, then break them". I am at my second gig today (Pala) and have a thing at Miramar tomorrow AM then Pala tomorrow night, a church gig on sunday followed by a casual at 5 at Harbor Island Sheraton then Mon, Wed thru sunday doing it....

Here's the secret of good grip- Be not as relaxed "as you can be" but "more relaxed than you actually are" while playing. That's pretty much it. You are not chopping trees or roofing a house. You are playing a musical instrument. It's different.
 

SHOGUNWARRIOR32

New member
Atmerrill":32t0p7vc said:
Sorry to be the wet blanket here, but yeah - I disagree. Look, when I see (as I did this week and many times before) young kids in their teens with wrist splints on (due to being diagnosed with Carpeltunel Syndrom) because they've been cutting wood with sticks that are too heavy and because they have piss poor technique, I tend to feel that somewhere, some drummer let this kid down - probably because they didn't want to say something.

What price does good technique have? Hard to believe (for me more so) but I've got almost 40 years on the tubs. And, I've got some pretty impressive chops. Do I wear splints? No. Like others, I took the time to develop "proper" technique," and others took the time to stop and offer suggestions and feedback. It's why I (and all the others like me) can sit and play for hours. It's why I should be able to continue playing for more years down the road.

How tragic to see kids stopped in their tracks due to indifference. <a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxmk502YYUS%2526i%253D36%252F36%255F1%255F6%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_6.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0"><img border="0" src="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252Fnocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egif%253Fi%253D36%252F36_1_6/image.gif"></a>

I don't think you're being a wet blanket because I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. My point was NOT to let beginners down by not showing them proper technique.. or let them use piss poor technique and develop muscular and tendon problems causing to wear splints.. as i said in my post, of course guide the beginners and start them off with proper grip, etc. ..I'm referring to people like Dave Lynch above and myself who has been playing a while and was shown proper grip techniques and explored them all until he developed a grip that he's most comfortable with and i highly doubt Dave Lynch is wearing a splint. I was on drummerworld's forum a few weeks ago and a guy posted a video doing sort of a buddy rich tribute on his buddy rich kit....the dude obviously had been playing for a very long time, had excellent chops and his grip was a little different than the "proper" grip and he got attacked left and right because he had his pinky finger sticking out to the side. That drove me nuts! You did bring up a great point about the stick size..using the appropriate stick size is very important ..example Dave Weckl redesigning his evolution sticks and choking up on the stick now as oppose to the longer red sticks and him gripping at the end back in the 90's.. In my 20+ years, I've never had 1 formal class.. i learned proper grip from video tapes and books.. through the years I explored all of them and now i hold the sticks where I'm most comfortable with the least strain on my wrists, etc. My point was exactly how Billy Ray put it.."Learn the rules. When you know the rules, you are free to break them at will."...I'm sure Dave Weckl and Keith Moon was shown proper grip from their teachers but their grips evolved into what suited their style, anatomy, comfort, etc. When Weckl was recording Master Plan in '90, wowing the jazz world..only a complete jackass would've toldl him his grip was "wrong" because he gripped at the end of the stick...that's my point here.
This is NOT a ploy to get people to go to my page but on my Myspace page I have a couple Vids up jammin to a couple weckl tunes.. i've been told a few times my grip is wrong, shitty, horrible, etc..but that's where I'm most comfortable at. Feel free to check em out and give me feedback on my grip.
 

BillRayDrums

New member
SHOGUNWARRIOR32":3ed6ux09 said:
Atmerrill":3ed6ux09 said:
Sorry to be the wet blanket here, but yeah - I disagree. Look, when I see (as I did this week and many times before) young kids in their teens with wrist splints on (due to being diagnosed with Carpeltunel Syndrom) because they've been cutting wood with sticks that are too heavy and because they have piss poor technique, I tend to feel that somewhere, some drummer let this kid down - probably because they didn't want to say something.

What price does good technique have? Hard to believe (for me more so) but I've got almost 40 years on the tubs. And, I've got some pretty impressive chops. Do I wear splints? No. Like others, I took the time to develop "proper" technique," and others took the time to stop and offer suggestions and feedback. It's why I (and all the others like me) can sit and play for hours. It's why I should be able to continue playing for more years down the road.

How tragic to see kids stopped in their tracks due to indifference. <a href="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fwww.smileycentral.com%252F%253Fpartner%253DZSzeb008%255FZNxmk502YYUS%2526i%253D36%252F36%255F1%255F6%2526feat%253Dprof/page.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_6.gif" alt="SmileyCentral.com" border="0"><img border="0" src="http://plugin.smileycentral.com/http%253A%252F%252Fimgfarm%252Ecom%252Fimages%252Fnocache%252Ftr%252Ffw%252Fsmiley%252Fsocial%252Egif%253Fi%253D36%252F36_1_6/image.gif"></a>



I don't think you're being a wet blanket because I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. My point was NOT to let beginners down by not showing them proper technique.. or let them use piss poor technique and develop muscular and tendon problems causing to wear splints.. as i said in my post, of course guide the beginners and start them off with proper grip, etc. ..I'm referring to people like Dave Lynch above and myself who has been playing a while and was shown proper grip techniques and explored them all until he developed a grip that he's most comfortable with and i highly doubt Dave Lynch is wearing a splint. I was on drummerworld's forum a few weeks ago and a guy posted a video doing sort of a buddy rich tribute on his buddy rich kit....the dude obviously had been playing for a very long time, had excellent chops and his grip was a little different than the "proper" grip and he got attacked left and right because he had his pinky finger sticking out to the side. That drove me nuts! You did bring up a great point about the stick size..using the appropriate stick size is very important ..example Dave Weckl redesigning his evolution sticks and choking up on the stick now as oppose to the longer red sticks and him gripping at the end back in the 90's.. In my 20+ years, I've never had 1 formal class.. i learned proper grip from video tapes and books.. through the years I explored all of them and now i hold the sticks where I'm most comfortable with the least strain on my wrists, etc. My point was exactly how Billy Ray put it.."Learn the rules. When you know the rules, you are free to break them at will."...I'm sure Dave Weckl and Keith Moon was shown proper grip from their teachers but their grips evolved into what suited their style, anatomy, comfort, etc. When Weckl was recording Master Plan in '90, wowing the jazz world..only a complete jackass would've toldl him his grip was "wrong" because he gripped at the end of the stick...that's my point here.
This is NOT a ploy to get people to go to my page but on my Myspace page I have a couple Vids up jammin to a couple weckl tunes.. i've been told a few times my grip is wrong, shitty, horrible, etc..but that's where I'm most comfortable at. Feel free to check em out and give me feedback on my grip.
Dude you're ridiculous on the kit! A master! Wow. Your grip looks great. I would loosen up on the thumb in the left- get that thumb on top of the stick a bit more. It could help you relax. Check this out.....http://youtube.com/watch?v=DLOsohq89ZU (I was half-awake when I did this so don't laugh)
 

Rob Crisp

New member
Grip, interesting one. Hold it too tight you get injuries, break heads sticks and god knows what else. Too loose and a band mate gets it in the back of the head.

I used to hold tight but have now gone down the looser yet controlled road.

Proper technique makes a huge difference, learning to make the stick move for you. When you stop thinking of the stick as something to bash with and more as an extension of your arm.

Having said that, I don't think there is such a thing as a difinitive correct technique.
 

Atmerrill

New member
ShogonWarrior wrote: a peave of mine. I have a real problem when I see people tell other drummers that their grip is "wrong". I've defended countless drummers in different forums..including myself with this. I'm a firm believer that everyone's anatomy.. hands, arms, seating posture, sense of stick balance, etc. is different. I understand that teachers need to guide beginners on how to hold the stick whether match or traditional, finding the fulcrum, etc. .. but if someone has been playing for a while, even for a just few months, and developed a comfortable position where they play their best..whether it's toward the end of the stick or in the middle..whatever..shouldn't it be appreciated and respected rather than corrected to the liking of the critic and how comfortable the critic feels holding the stick?


This is what I'm disagreeing with. You know guys, you can't have it both ways: Wanting to walk on the side of the street wanting to respect a kid's "individuality" and right to be (IDK..different?) and then not being perceived as some sort of (I think "technique freak" or "expert" was the word used. At some point you have to pony up and decide that you're either be assertive and speak to the kid you see is going about it wrong, or you're not. Face it, a lot of kids taking up drums are those who don't take formal lessons and are trying to cop their stuff of videos or do-it-yourself type books. And, injury isn't even limited to those - a lot of drum corp kids damage their chops (and, yes, I have much respect for drum corps).

Finally, I think there is "definitive correct technique." It the point where not only are you fluid, but you're able to play injury free. It can be attained through multiple variations on a theme.
 

andybfrank

New member
Some people are into learning proper grip, technique, etc. and some people aren't. I don't believe in giving advice to people who don't want it. It wouldn't bother me if every other drummer I knew had bad grip. It just makes people who do pay attention to those details appear more professional, thus increasing our chances for getting good gigs.
 

Atmerrill

New member
andybfrank":30gnllgu said:
Some people are into learning proper grip, technique, etc. and some people aren't. I don't believe in giving advice to people who don't want it. It wouldn't bother me if every other drummer I knew had bad grip. It just makes people who do pay attention to those details appear more professional, thus increasing our chances for getting good gigs.
Great last sentence - a ton of truth packed in there! With that thought, I'm done on this subject.
 

BillRayDrums

New member
andybfrank":30zw5ki2 said:
Some people are into learning proper grip, technique, etc. and some people aren't. I don't believe in giving advice to people who don't want it. It wouldn't bother me if every other drummer I knew had bad grip. It just makes people who do pay attention to those details appear more professional, thus increasing our chances for getting good gigs.
Egg-zactly!!

Now that you said that, Keep on with the bad grips, because I needs all the work I can get!!
 
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