Freestroke, moeller stroke, single/ double stroke

[killdrum1983]

hi guys, i just bought Dom Famularo's book "It's your move, Motions and emotions. This book is awesome i bought it cause i couldn't understand anything when i read it so i thought this book must be awesome!!! lol
I'm just asking myself if the free stroke isused a lot? i take it more as an introduction to the double stroke but i'm might be right i think... and do you know where i can see videos of these strokes? cause when i read the excercises i'm not sure i get them the right way it would be better if i could have videos or stuff. I've already check Dom's lessons via vic firth but i can't watch them i only have a web acces from my job lol thanks for the answer.

 

[Sway]

Here are some drummers you can check out for those techniques. Jojo mayer for Moeller and Johnny rabb for the free hand. Oh yeah and Jojo has a video on drummerworld.com and he emonstrates the push pull techinque. I find watching these guys are the best way to learn cause written music is a little hard. I thought myself be watching these dudes and it helps alot more that you think.

 

[wii2525]

youtube has videos of the freehand with Johnny Rabb. Actually, youtube has videos of probably every technique you could possibly come up with.

 

[killdrum1983]

youtube has videos of the freehand with Johnny Rabb. Actually, youtube has videos of probably every technique you could possibly come up with.

ok thanks lot guys i'm gonna check these right now

 

[Homki890]

The "Freestroke" is just a new name for an old technique. It's more commonly known as the Open-Close double, or the Drop-Catch method. It's how I do my double stroke rolls for about 10 years now, was taught by a guy who had been doing it 25, who had been doing it for almost 35. It's a very old technique, and I'm not sure why people now are just starting to "discover" it.

Whatever you want to call it, that is the technique to learn. It has to be done properly though. I have a video, way down near the bottom of these threads on technique, and it covers this.

Moeller is probably the most overrated grip I have ever seen. It looks funny, doesn't sound all that great, and people flock to it. Yeah, you can play mad fast, but I don't want those accents in my single stroke roll. It should be even, not the DDsshhh--DDsshhh--DDsshhh with the Moeller.

The Open-Close is great for doubles. You can play faster that lightning with it. Singles can be applied through the same technique, just adjusted a bit for one stroke. Learn Open-Close. Best at of them all.

Homki890

 

[drummert2k]

Moeller is probably the most overrated grip I have ever seen. It looks funny, doesn't sound all that great, and people flock to it. Yeah, you can play mad fast, but I don't want those accents in my single stroke roll. It should be even, not the DDsshhh--DDsshhh--DDsshhh with the Moeller.



Homki890

moeller isnt a grip. its a technique to make the stick move to reduce the work you physicaly put in. great for loud playing so you dont hurt your hands and wrists. its basically the most out of your hit with the least effort. thats a greatly simplified definition though. moeller isnt just the fast single stick thing you always see done. thats just a repeating combination of the strokes. pulling for that accent while letting the stick do the work on the lower notes.

 

[Homki890]

moeller isnt a grip. its a technique to make the stick move to reduce the work you physicaly put in. great for loud playing so you dont hurt your hands and wrists. its basically the most out of your hit with the least effort. thats a greatly simplified definition though. moeller isnt just the fast single stick thing you always see done. thats just a repeating combination of the strokes. pulling for that accent while letting the stick do the work on the lower notes.

I agree on the grip thing. My bad. :lol:

I disagree on the work effort. In Moeller, your entire wrist kicks back on the third stroke, the forearm is raised, and the entire hand moves up and down for the next stroke. All of that isn't necessary. If proper use of the fingers and the Free Stroke, then you can play much faster with a fraction of the effort. Hardcore Rudimental players are masters of this technique. The accent on the front sounds bad when playing it, and to use the Moeller with the same dynamics is a very awkward motion, more so than the actual stroke. Moeller is just not the way for even strokes.

Homki890

 

[peripsy]

moeller isnt a grip. its a technique to make the stick move to reduce the work you physicaly put in. great for loud playing so you dont hurt your hands and wrists. its basically the most out of your hit with the least effort. thats a greatly simplified definition though. moeller isnt just the fast single stick thing you always see done. thats just a repeating combination of the strokes. pulling for that accent while letting the stick do the work on the lower notes.

I agree on the grip thing. My bad. :lol:

I disagree on the work effort. In Moeller, your entire wrist kicks back on the third stroke, the forearm is raised, and the entire hand moves up and down for the next stroke. All of that isn't necessary. If proper use of the fingers and the Free Stroke, then you can play much faster with a fraction of the effort. Hardcore Rudimental players are masters of this technique. The accent on the front sounds bad when playing it, and to use the Moeller with the same dynamics is a very awkward motion, more so than the actual stroke. Moeller is just not the way for even strokes.

Homki890

I think that moeller stroke is much louder.That's because the range of the motion.Many players use this stroke other don't.Mike portnoy i think , owes a lot of his fame to moeller.This is one opinion...

 

[Rob Crisp]

Sorry Homki, going to disagree with you on a couple of things.

I've been reading Dom's book too and I'm off to study with him in January. This is all based on my understanding of what I've learnt at DrumTech and from Dom's book (as well as my mate who's already been to study with him).

Now, from what I've learnt already free stroke refers to letting the stick rebound to full height ready for the next stroke. It has nothing to do with drop catch for doubles, thats something else altogether. The idea is you play down and the stick comes back. So you're not using excess energy and can achieve even strokes.

As for Moeller, the whole point of it is to get power from a stroke and then carry it on to give more strokes without extra effort (as well as using the motion to provide a strong backbeat). It's NOT 3 or 4 indevidual strokes. It's one Moeller whip followed by a bit of control to get the stick to bounce a few more times.

For example, 1 whip and then 2 rebound strokes would give you three notes, which could be played in time as a triplet. Get both hands doing it and overlap them and you have a sextuplet. 1 Moeller followed by 3 strokes, group of four which can overlap and give you demi-semiquavers for example.

So get 3 rebounds per hand and thats 8 strokes for the work of 2. Homki, you say you can get the speed from fingers, but the idea is not to outspeed fingers, more reduce the workload. It's less fatiguing to do one slightly larger movement than lots of little ones.

So it's not that fingers are bad, or wrong, it's just another school of thought! Personally I like to use both.

 

[SGarrett]

Video explanations of both the Free Stroke and Moeller techniques, by Dom Famularo and Jim Chapin.
http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/domfamularo.html

A lot of people think they understand Moeller, but a lot of them don't.

 

[Rob Crisp]

Video explanations of both the Free Stroke and Moeller techniques, by Dom Famularo and Jim Chapin.
http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/domfamularo.html

A lot of people think they understand Moeller, but a lot of them don't.

I can't wait for freaking January! Long Island here I come!

 

[peripsy]

Sorry Homki, going to disagree with you on a couple of things.

I've been reading Dom's book too and I'm off to study with him in January. This is all based on my understanding of what I've learnt at DrumTech and from Dom's book (as well as my mate who's already been to study with him).

Now, from what I've learnt already free stroke refers to letting the stick rebound to full height ready for the next stroke. It has nothing to do with drop catch for doubles, thats something else altogether. The idea is you play down and the stick comes back. So you're not using excess energy and can achieve even strokes.

As for Moeller, the whole point of it is to get power from a stroke and then carry it on to give more strokes without extra effort (as well as using the motion to provide a strong backbeat). It's NOT 3 or 4 indevidual strokes. It's one Moeller whip followed by a bit of control to get the stick to bounce a few more times.

For example, 1 whip and then 2 rebound strokes would give you three notes, which could be played in time as a triplet. Get both hands doing it and overlap them and you have a sextuplet. 1 Moeller followed by 3 strokes, group of four which can overlap and give you demi-semiquavers for example.

I do the same thing with you and Dom's book is excellent!!!I use fingers or bounce for other things and moeller for being louder.Also i use moeller because it looks great.

So get 3 rebounds per hand and thats 8 strokes for the work of 2. Homki, you say you can get the speed from fingers, but the idea is not to outspeed fingers, more reduce the workload. It's less fatiguing to do one slightly larger movement than lots of little ones.

So it's not that fingers are bad, or wrong, it's just another school of thought! Personally I like to use both.

 

[SGarrett]

Video explanations of both the Free Stroke and Moeller techniques, by Dom Famularo and Jim Chapin.
http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/domfamularo.html

A lot of people think they understand Moeller, but a lot of them don't.

I can't wait for freaking January! Long Island here I come!

I bet you're exited. His energy is as contagious as ebola!

 

[Rob Crisp]

Video explanations of both the Free Stroke and Moeller techniques, by Dom Famularo and Jim Chapin.
http://www.vicfirth.com/education/drumset/domfamularo.html

A lot of people think they understand Moeller, but a lot of them don't.

I can't wait for freaking January! Long Island here I come!

I bet you're exited. His energy is as contagious as ebola!

Although more preferable I'm sure!