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:evil: :twisted: *swings axe into a meagre and defenceless looking lump of wood* :twisted: :evil:

:evil: Yeh I am frustrated. :evil:

Been playing a double bass drum pedal (DW 4000) for about 2 and a quarter years and I feel like I am hitting a glass ceiling. Heels down I can consistantly kick out semi quavers (1e+a2e+a3e....) at about 180 -190 bpm :D , but i can't hold it for very long. Heels up I am vastly slower (semis at 130bpm) :( and heel toe is about 160 before it becomes messy and 'orrible sounding mush. :?

I want to know if anyone out the experienced/is experiencing the same problem and if there is a cure :D (I don't care if its difficult I like to put the practice hours in :D ). If it is one that gives speedy results :D that might save me from pounding my head against a brick wall in the not so distant future. :evil:


ps love this place- so easy to get a decent answer to a simple question


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Get your metronome, set it to 130 (what you're comfortable with) and play heel up triplets or 4/4. Play it until your legs hurt.

Then scale your BPM up by 5 or 10 everyday until you can play 200 bpm smooth as hell like Jason Bittner.

Playing double kick heel up is imo the only way to get full bass sound while doing doubles, and the second rule is that playing fast without being locked in and smooth will make you hate yourself when you get a miked bass drum. The feeling of having a locked in double kick groove through a miked bass drum is amazing.

There's no way to build speed and smoothness without time and practice, as much as we all hate it. :p


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totally agree with above - get 100% comfortable with doubles at 5bpm intervals until one day you wake up and wonder why you ever had a problem.

Also tend to agree that better rhythm and feel can be achieved heels up if playing straight forward doubles, or variations of doubles.

Definitely heels down for the intricate stuff tho.


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what they said. I find it interesting that you say you play faster heel down, perhaps your using you legs too much and not using those ankles like you do when you play heel down.
I've been experiencing the same problem. Ive been playing drums for 4 years now and I got a double pedal last year, I have so much trouble just trying to do 16th notes smoothly. Whats wierd is my friend started drums about a year ago and he got a double pedal about 2 months after he started. As soon as he got it he could play double bass like jason bittner with no practice at all!!


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Glass ceiling like I said annoying isn't it. Your friend, what I have said to other guys b4 now is if u can play fast instantly ure jus on the nerve letting ure feet spaz out and any fool can do that. Slow it down and learn control (though I get it that I am hardly a shining example of high speed double bass chops).

Alcyon- when you say doubles do you mean RRLLRRLL or r u jus referrin to double bass and mean singles RLRLRL
Also do you mean RRLL to be 1e+a or RRLL to be 1+2+?
Ta for the help.

ps I am part of the 8%


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Double kick doubles like RLRLRLRL but it's 1+2+3+4+ or 123 123 123 for triples.

You're exactly right about the spazzing and learning smoothness.


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Uhh i dont double bass a whole lot but i have developed my right foot alot. And the way i did that was just by playing heel up and not worrried about speed but trying to play every note an equal distance apart and playing hard. That builds up the nervs and muscle. Lack of speed isnt so much you cant move that fast, cause you said it earlier about the spazzing, its that the muscles need to be developed. I did 4 quarters on the snare and then 8ths on the bass drum with both feet and hans and just sped that process up. I didnt stop oncei got the burn i started when i got the burn counting in fours until i got to 50. ANd that makes it pretty quick.


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You don't need to be on a kit or on a pedals to practice your kicks... You can do them on the ground and you will experience the same pain etc. So I say, where ever you are, whatever you're doing, just practice them on the ground...

I personally had wanted a kit for a long time, but had to wait many months before I got mine, and during those many months (maybe a year), all I did was practice... Now I've had my kit for around five months, and I'm comfortable at reasonable speeds - just goes to show that you don't need to practice on a kit...

So yea, no matter where you are, school, work whatever, practice the three techniques - it works trust me :)


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my gf talked me into waiting a while before i bought a double bass set-up and so i'm coming up on a year now since i got my kit....i'm still learning and i would like to know what you guys think as to the pros and cons of getting better with a single first ....i'm kinda jones-ing for double bass set-up right now (understatement)....comments?


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If you build up your single first its so much better cause your able to not be completly dependent on it. So your left foot can do the heel toe stuff on the hat or clave stuff. When you do get one though build up your left as good as your right. Building up your dominant foot first just makes you that much more amazing. If you can do 4's with two feet its ok, 4's with one foot thats somthing to be amazed at.


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pilsnerfan":kcmcxr5b said:
my gf talked me into waiting a while before i bought a double bass set-up and so i'm coming up on a year now since i got my kit....i'm still learning and i would like to know what you guys think as to the pros and cons of getting better with a single first ....i'm kinda jones-ing for double bass set-up right now (understatement)....comments?

I'd say there's no reason to not get a double bass set-up, but no compelling reason (other than if you decide you want to play the speed/death metal stuff for the rest of your life) that you should rush to it either, go another year or two and then get one if you still want to, once you have some good independence you'll probably find that the double bass stuff comes a lot easier.


First dude.......take a deeeeeep breath.....and relax........every drummer runs into this problem sometime or another. Double bass is an ART that takes years and years of practice to perfect. NOBODY just sits down one day and kicks perfectly for hours on end. Heres a few tips:

1. Practice (DUH)
2. Metronome (slowly increase your tempo)
4. 123 123 123 123 123 123 123 123


been doing these for a while now and let me tell you they work incredibly for speed and endurance

Hope this helps dude, good luck


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To work my chops I:

triplets- RLR then LRL then RLR then LRL... get that gallop sound goin

THEN! with your hand and feet (hand) LLLL (foot) LLLL (foot) RRRR (hand) RRRR - repeat. work it in a circular feel.

For fast dbl kicks I just run 16th as fast as I can for as long as I can. Take a break with some slower beats, then kick it back up and run 16th again.

I also work paradiddles w/ my feet the RLRRLRLL. I do this A LOT.

I take my right foot off the kick and work my left foot instead.

I dunno, be creative and just plow thru it.

Best to you,


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There's building up speed and there's building up endurance, and they're almost two separate pursuits. You build up speed by practicing fast -- although I would suggest pursuing clarity first. You build up endurance by practicing slower, longer, and work your way up to the speeds your wanting play at. If you can play in time at 100 bpm for 10 minutes, amp it up 5 bpm and try it there.


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i'd get new pedals, but i can fly on iron cobra jr's so thats not your real problem.

heres what your gonna do

Practice for 2 mintuers straight on the fastest speed you can make throught it. if you cant get through the 2 minutes stop. slow down the metronome and start over. when you make itr throught the full 2 minutes put the metronome up. make sure you make it solid throught the 2 minutes before putting the metrnome to a higher speed. do this a bit every day and i GUARENTEE you will be signifcantly faster in a month


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JSdrmr":3lnovt09 said:
try using the Stick Control book by Ted Reed but with the feet!
I was going to post this, but then I saw it, and was like, "Damn."

If you're worried about being smooth, try this. Play everything you would with your right foot, but with your left foot. Like, lets say you're doing 8th notes on ride, and back beats on two and four. Simple beat. Just work your left foot like you would your right foot. Play one and three with your left. Start working on syncopated beats with both feet. Switch up the footing on a catchy fill. The main point is to work your feet to the point that they are independent of each other. Most double bass problems come from the fact that the weak foot is just that, and is try ing to play catch-up with the strong foot, and you end up playing some pounding double-stops. Work the feet until you get both as an independent section.

Don't rule out the 5 bpm per session workout. That will do wonders for your endurance. However, endurance is nothing when you can't control it properly. Use both the independence and endurance workouts, and your double bass should start to see improvement in about a week, and within months, you will be drastically better. You have to make sure that you keep at it.