heels up

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blastbeats666
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Post Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:26 pm

ok so i play heels down on my set because its more comfortable. but i know alot of people who play heels up. whats the benefits of playing heels up, and is there anyway for you to play it without it hurting? because ive tried to play it before and it just really hurts to play like that for more than a half an hour
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Empyrean Drums
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Post Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:56 pm

It's like the difference between French Grip and German Grip. Both have benefits and applications and are worth practicing
Where are you getting pains, and how are you sitting (throne hight, angle of your knees, position over your pedals, angle of pedals....)?
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blastbeats666
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Post Thu Oct 23, 2008 2:57 pm

Empyrean Drums wrote:It's like the difference between French Grip and German Grip. Both have benefits and applications and are worth practicing
Where are you getting pains, and how are you sitting (throne hight, angle of your knees, position over your pedals, angle of pedals....)?


i dont know all of the number for that but i can tell you is that if i play heels up for an extended amount of time, like 30 mins or so, it will start to hurt in my acheilles tendon or the back end of my heel. i think my throne is a bit low for how tall i am. and plus i usually play without shoes/socks ect. and the spikes at the back of my DW 5000 kill. what are some advantages/disadvantages of the two positions?
screw you mike
cableman26
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Post Thu Oct 23, 2008 4:56 pm

Heel up you get more power, which in turn makes your bass drum louder. When you play heel down you don't get as much volume, but it is easier for accents and different things. It mainly depends what style of music you play. If you play more rock then heel up is the way to go, but if you play jazz then go with heel down.
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blastbeats666
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Post Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:13 pm

so what should i do to make heels up easier to play, just raise my throne?
screw you mike
cableman26
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Post Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:06 pm

Well, I like you was always more comfortable playing heel down. If your like me when you first sat down at the drums that's what felt right and you've played it every since. I'm retraining myself for heel up too. I take online lessons with Mike Johnston and I recently asked him how to train my foot for heel up. He said the best way is to just play it. It's gonna hurt for a while because your bodys not use to it, you haven't built the muscle memory for this technique yet. When practicing play heel up ALOT forget heel down for now. Play it every time you hit your hi-hats. Your leg's gonna feel tight your muscles will ache. Just like if your just starting to lift weights and you've never done it your gonna be a little sore the first few times. Don't play to the point that you think it's hurting your really or anything just about 10 to 15 minutes a day.
As far as where your seated I set with my waist even with the snare. I have a bicycle style throne and my legs are a little bit in front of me. There's a section somewhere on this forum about ergonimics and the best way to set up your kit. Good luck man.
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blastbeats666
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Post Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:57 am

so i have to pretty much from trying to do about 5 or 10 mins of heels up and start working my way up? ok thanks though. i have like a stool throne, and i just raised it last night. i haven't played it yet but again thanks for the help dude
screw you mike
cableman26
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Post Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:18 pm

No problem man.
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Howepirate
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Post Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:15 pm

1. No pain, No gain
2. If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Played with Rose Funeral last night and their drummer used heel-down and did a pretty good job.

Dont be afraid to try things though.
SGarrett
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Post Fri Oct 24, 2008 3:33 pm

No pain, no gain = No Brain.

You're holding too much tension in your ankle. Relax before you injure yourself. :)
"If the goal is for me to give up my reality for your reality, then the goal is for me to give up my self for your self--a goal I have to reject."
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Howepirate
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Post Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:07 pm

SGarrett wrote:No pain, no gain = No Brain.

You're holding too much tension in your ankle. Relax before you injure yourself. :)


You take everything out of context.


No sense = unwanted pain

Calibrating yourself to do something better the right way is something different.
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Post Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:49 pm

That's not out of context and any professional trainer would tell you the same thing. :)

There should never be any amount of pain in the joints, tendons, or ligaments. A burning in the belly of the muscle is one thing but once that turns to actual pain you've gone too far and/or are using improper technique. Pain in the joints will ultimately lead to damage in those joints. That happens to be in the context of the original question. I have a pretty good knowledge base for the workings of the human body and how to train. I can list my "credentials" if you wish. :)
"If the goal is for me to give up my reality for your reality, then the goal is for me to give up my self for your self--a goal I have to reject."
blastbeats666
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Post Fri Oct 24, 2008 4:55 pm

SGarrett wrote:That's not out of context and any professional trainer would tell you the same thing. :)

There should never be any amount of pain in the joints, tendons, or ligaments. A burning in the belly of the muscle is one thing but once that turns to actual pain you've gone too far and/or are using improper technique. Pain in the joints will ultimately lead to damage in those joints. That happens to be in the context of the original question. I have a pretty good knowledge base for the workings of the human body and how to train. I can list my "credentials" if you wish. :)


i mean it doesn't hurt its more of a stretch or like a working burn, sort of i dont know how to explain it but its not OMG MY F***IN ANKLES!!!!!!!!!
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Howepirate
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Post Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:07 pm

SGarrett wrote:That's not out of context and any professional trainer would tell you the same thing. :)

There should never be any amount of pain in the joints, tendons, or ligaments. A burning in the belly of the muscle is one thing but once that turns to actual pain you've gone too far and/or are using improper technique. Pain in the joints will ultimately lead to damage in those joints. That happens to be in the context of the original question. I have a pretty good knowledge base for the workings of the human body and how to train. I can list my "credentials" if you wish. :)


I can list the fact that your credentials and the fact that you flaunt them everywhere, don't matter. I know how to play double bass.

I play heels up, heels down, flat-foot, swivel, and heel-toe every time I play. When something hurts (no, not a joint DUH), I switch.
SGarrett
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Post Sat Oct 25, 2008 7:05 am

blastbeats666 wrote:
i mean it doesn't hurt its more of a stretch or like a working burn, sort of i dont know how to explain it but its not OMG MY F***IN ANKLES!!!!!!!!!


It still shouldn't hurt in any joint, tendon, or ligament. You're more likely than not holding too much tension in your ankles. The likely cause is trying to play too fast and/or too hard.

Howepirate wrote:
I can list the fact that your credentials and the fact that you flaunt them everywhere, don't matter. I know how to play double bass.

I play heels up, heels down, flat-foot, swivel, and heel-toe every time I play. When something hurts (no, not a joint DUH), I switch.


I'm not "flaunting" the fact that I know more about human physiology than you. The fact does stand, however, that I do know more about it than you. Knowing how the human body does, in fact, matter to the question at hand. It also matters to drumming in the long run. For that fact, it matters in the long run for any physical activity. It's how to avoid injury and possible surgery.

I played double bass for around 12 years, actually. I'd also say that that matters, as well. :)

You're really making a big deal out of nothing, man. I corrected a misleading statement with the same thing a professional trainer would say. Just deal with it. Jeez.
"If the goal is for me to give up my reality for your reality, then the goal is for me to give up my self for your self--a goal I have to reject."