Trigger Basics

Roland TD, Yamaha DTX, Alesis DM5, Simmson etc. All about electronic drum sets.

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tchfunkta
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Post Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:44 pm

Howepirate wrote:
tchfunkta wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:
xdoseonex wrote:his point was that when you you watch the video of bret baddorf playing without triggers it doesnt sound anywher near as clean and percise as the one with triggers although hes a sick drumer and his foot technique is awesome, at those speeds, unless you have triggers, the bass drum hits kind of mush together because of the low frequency of the bass drum.

point taken...
however, you're talkin about an unmiced kick drum un youtube versus a recorded kick drum via triggers...... it sounded fine to me considering the equipment



The only reason his bass drum sounds like shit in the non-triggered video is because his drum is tuned like muffled shit, which is fine when you're triggering it, but is a bullshit argument from the trigger guys because some of us non-trigger guys know how to tune their bass drum to sound good. Their arguments about time constraints in the 10 min. setup clubs made me see the benefit though.


Leave people to their gear. Obviously you guys dont play fucking death metal so leave the shit we use ALONE.

My bass drum has a FUCKING R&B sound AND ITS WONDERFUL! Can you hear it over my cymbals and my loud ass snare when im kicking 240 BPM???? NO. Only I CAN HEAR IT. My guitarist and my screamer couldnt hear shit before i got triggers and I PLAYED LOUDDDDD.

I kick fucking hard as shit and use big ass DW beaters and it ends up just sounding like mush.



Then it's a balance issue. Your other parts of the drums are way too loud so you're having to hit the bass drum so hard it sounds bad. Quieter cymbals and less volume on the snare would allow your bass drum to come down and balance out. Stage volumes don't HAVE to be murder, that's what mics are for.
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Howepirate
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Post Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:05 pm

tchfunkta wrote:
Howepirate wrote:
tchfunkta wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:
xdoseonex wrote:his point was that when you you watch the video of bret baddorf playing without triggers it doesnt sound anywher near as clean and percise as the one with triggers although hes a sick drumer and his foot technique is awesome, at those speeds, unless you have triggers, the bass drum hits kind of mush together because of the low frequency of the bass drum.

point taken...
however, you're talkin about an unmiced kick drum un youtube versus a recorded kick drum via triggers...... it sounded fine to me considering the equipment



The only reason his bass drum sounds like shit in the non-triggered video is because his drum is tuned like muffled shit, which is fine when you're triggering it, but is a bullshit argument from the trigger guys because some of us non-trigger guys know how to tune their bass drum to sound good. Their arguments about time constraints in the 10 min. setup clubs made me see the benefit though.


Leave people to their gear. Obviously you guys dont play fucking death metal so leave the shit we use ALONE.

My bass drum has a FUCKING R&B sound AND ITS WONDERFUL! Can you hear it over my cymbals and my loud ass snare when im kicking 240 BPM???? NO. Only I CAN HEAR IT. My guitarist and my screamer couldnt hear shit before i got triggers and I PLAYED LOUDDDDD.

I kick fucking hard as shit and use big ass DW beaters and it ends up just sounding like mush.



Then it's a balance issue. Your other parts of the drums are way too loud so you're having to hit the bass drum so hard it sounds bad. Quieter cymbals and less volume on the snare would allow your bass drum to come down and balance out. Stage volumes don't HAVE to be murder, that's what mics are for.


NO IT SOUNDS FINE. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD. ANY DOUBLE BASS PLAYING WITH 16TH NOTES PAST 220 BPM SOUNDS LIKE MUSH NO MATTER WHAT YOU DOOO
tchfunkta
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Post Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:14 pm

Howepirate wrote:
tchfunkta wrote:
Howepirate wrote:
tchfunkta wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:
xdoseonex wrote:his point was that when you you watch the video of bret baddorf playing without triggers it doesnt sound anywher near as clean and percise as the one with triggers although hes a sick drumer and his foot technique is awesome, at those speeds, unless you have triggers, the bass drum hits kind of mush together because of the low frequency of the bass drum.

point taken...
however, you're talkin about an unmiced kick drum un youtube versus a recorded kick drum via triggers...... it sounded fine to me considering the equipment



The only reason his bass drum sounds like shit in the non-triggered video is because his drum is tuned like muffled shit, which is fine when you're triggering it, but is a bullshit argument from the trigger guys because some of us non-trigger guys know how to tune their bass drum to sound good. Their arguments about time constraints in the 10 min. setup clubs made me see the benefit though.


Leave people to their gear. Obviously you guys dont play fucking death metal so leave the shit we use ALONE.

My bass drum has a FUCKING R&B sound AND ITS WONDERFUL! Can you hear it over my cymbals and my loud ass snare when im kicking 240 BPM???? NO. Only I CAN HEAR IT. My guitarist and my screamer couldnt hear shit before i got triggers and I PLAYED LOUDDDDD.

I kick fucking hard as shit and use big ass DW beaters and it ends up just sounding like mush.



Then it's a balance issue. Your other parts of the drums are way too loud so you're having to hit the bass drum so hard it sounds bad. Quieter cymbals and less volume on the snare would allow your bass drum to come down and balance out. Stage volumes don't HAVE to be murder, that's what mics are for.


NO IT SOUNDS FINE. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD. ANY DOUBLE BASS PLAYING WITH 16TH NOTES PAST 220 BPM SOUNDS LIKE MUSH NO MATTER WHAT YOU DOOO



LOL, calm down buddy, it's gonna be ok.
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Post Thu Sep 27, 2007 5:32 pm

Dude, it's just that people dont understand my point. In that. THEY are WRONG about their ideas on triggering and its uses and importance to drumming.

I watched first hand, Through the eyes of the dead, despised icon, all shall perish, and the red chord. All of them were triggered except the red chord.

THE TRIGGERS FUCKING KILLED! I could feel it beating in my chest! Best feeling ever!...as for the red chord....the drums were lost completely...all you could hear is snare, cymbals, and toms...no bass element...no low undertone....


Sorry but i've proven my point to the fullest and its valid.

Get over it.
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percussle
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:59 am

LMAO. funny as thread. i cant see how majority are not understanding howepirate here!?!?!. those who disagree with this man. should just FUCKING START READING THE THREAD FROM PAGE 1 AGAIN!!
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Empyrean Drums
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:20 am

percussle wrote:LMAO. funny as thread. i cant see how majority are not understanding howepirate here!?!?!. those who disagree with this man. should just FUCKING START READING THE THREAD FROM PAGE 1 AGAIN!!


I would almost agree with him, but he seems to be all over the place.
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 4:56 am

tchfunkta wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:
xdoseonex wrote:his point was that when you you watch the video of bret baddorf playing without triggers it doesnt sound anywher near as clean and percise as the one with triggers although hes a sick drumer and his foot technique is awesome, at those speeds, unless you have triggers, the bass drum hits kind of mush together because of the low frequency of the bass drum.

point taken...
however, you're talkin about an unmiced kick drum un youtube versus a recorded kick drum via triggers...... it sounded fine to me considering the equipment



The only reason his bass drum sounds like shit in the non-triggered video is because his drum is tuned like muffled shit, which is fine when you're triggering it, but is a bullshit argument from the trigger guys because some of us non-trigger guys know how to tune their bass drum to sound good. Their arguments about time constraints in the 10 min. setup clubs made me see the benefit though.


Duh, you need to muffle it to get the individual strokes to stand out, if it's not, then it's a big boomy pile of feces at any more than 180BPM. I can tune my bass drum to sound awesome, I mean AWESOME, my Maryland Drum kit has one of the best sounding kicks I've ever heard, and I would use acoustically if I were playing in a rock band. But I'm NOT, I'm playing in a metal band that has songs with top tempos into the 210-220 range where I am slamming out 16ths notes with my feet at that speed.
dwtoast72
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:23 am

Howepirate wrote:
tchfunkta wrote:
Howepirate wrote:
tchfunkta wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:
xdoseonex wrote:his point was that when you you watch the video of bret baddorf playing without triggers it doesnt sound anywher near as clean and percise as the one with triggers although hes a sick drumer and his foot technique is awesome, at those speeds, unless you have triggers, the bass drum hits kind of mush together because of the low frequency of the bass drum.

point taken...
however, you're talkin about an unmiced kick drum un youtube versus a recorded kick drum via triggers...... it sounded fine to me considering the equipment



The only reason his bass drum sounds like shit in the non-triggered video is because his drum is tuned like muffled shit, which is fine when you're triggering it, but is a bullshit argument from the trigger guys because some of us non-trigger guys know how to tune their bass drum to sound good. Their arguments about time constraints in the 10 min. setup clubs made me see the benefit though.


Leave people to their gear. Obviously you guys dont play fucking death metal so leave the shit we use ALONE.

My bass drum has a FUCKING R&B sound AND ITS WONDERFUL! Can you hear it over my cymbals and my loud ass snare when im kicking 240 BPM???? NO. Only I CAN HEAR IT. My guitarist and my screamer couldnt hear shit before i got triggers and I PLAYED LOUDDDDD.

I kick fucking hard as shit and use big ass DW beaters and it ends up just sounding like mush.



Then it's a balance issue. Your other parts of the drums are way too loud so you're having to hit the bass drum so hard it sounds bad. Quieter cymbals and less volume on the snare would allow your bass drum to come down and balance out. Stage volumes don't HAVE to be murder, that's what mics are for.


NO IT SOUNDS FINE. GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK HEAD. ANY DOUBLE BASS PLAYING WITH 16TH NOTES PAST 220 BPM SOUNDS LIKE MUSH NO MATTER WHAT YOU DOOO

Then why make it a CONSTANT part of the set??
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dwtoast72
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:49 am

Howepirate wrote:Dude, it's just that people dont understand my point. In that. THEY are WRONG about their ideas on triggering and its uses and importance to drumming.

I watched first hand, Through the eyes of the dead, despised icon, all shall perish, and the red chord. All of them were triggered except the red chord.

THE TRIGGERS FUCKING KILLED! I could feel it beating in my chest! Best feeling ever!...as for the red chord....the drums were lost completely...all you could hear is snare, cymbals, and toms...no bass element...no low undertone....


Sorry but i've proven my point to the fullest and its valid.

Get over it.

This all seems to go back to what I said about a month or so ago; you sound like you're trying to sell something again, dude. My point of view is that, once again, that triggers are an easy way out. You are not going to change that!!! I joined the site to gain and spread knowledge from personal experiences and research and to share my opinion. My personal experience has allowed me to develope the opinions I have formed. I do not believe in the use of triggers for the reasons previously stated!! That's not going to change!! You're not going to sell this gear or it's use to me, dude. Like I said before, I am not going to deny that it's got it's good points. But in my eyes and to my ears, the bad points greatly out-weigh the good points you guys have mentioned. I will not sacrifice, nor will I support the sacrifice of a drum kit's natural sound for the sake of imitating something the drummer can't actually pull off!
Your point may be quite valid, but it's arguable; very arguable. And that's what I'm doing; I'm arguing it.
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xdoseonex
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:07 am

Howepirate wrote:
Empyrean Drums wrote:
dahlgrendrummer wrote:
Howepirate wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:
Rockula! wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:Use a MIC!! It'll help you develope your playing technique. You want that perfect sounding kick??? Then tune it up nice and fat, and kick the shit out of it until you get every kicked note to sound the same....... DON'T CHEAT YOURSELF!!!


I stated this in the other forum but I will repeat it here due to your zealotry
There are certain sounds that people who (obviously) do not play the same type of music you do, cannot achieve because the sounds are opposed to each other (tuning wise)
The low note of the bass drum is hard to achieve while simultaneously producing the clicky sound that defines the notes at high speeds
Therefore, they need to use triggers
Maybe you should do more research before you go off on something you don't fully understand

How about a smaller kick. Can't pull it off with a 24? or 22? get a 20. Triggers are an easy way out. Jason Bittner of Shadows Fall said it best......it just can't remember what exactly he said :D He has now issues pulliing his stuff off (just an example)


Jason Bittner is fucking slow.


Amen, he thinks he's kicking ass doing 180BPM, lawl...



I hear hes a total asshole
It's not that he's slow that makes him suck.......


That's absolutely try Empyrean :). I'm sure we could make a list on negatives for Bittner.
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xdoseonex
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:11 am

dahlgrendrummer wrote:
tchfunkta wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:
xdoseonex wrote:his point was that when you you watch the video of bret baddorf playing without triggers it doesnt sound anywher near as clean and percise as the one with triggers although hes a sick drumer and his foot technique is awesome, at those speeds, unless you have triggers, the bass drum hits kind of mush together because of the low frequency of the bass drum.

point taken...
however, you're talkin about an unmiced kick drum un youtube versus a recorded kick drum via triggers...... it sounded fine to me considering the equipment



The only reason his bass drum sounds like shit in the non-triggered video is because his drum is tuned like muffled shit, which is fine when you're triggering it, but is a bullshit argument from the trigger guys because some of us non-trigger guys know how to tune their bass drum to sound good. Their arguments about time constraints in the 10 min. setup clubs made me see the benefit though.


Duh, you need to muffle it to get the individual strokes to stand out, if it's not, then it's a big boomy pile of feces at any more than 180BPM. I can tune my bass drum to sound awesome, I mean AWESOME, my Maryland Drum kit has one of the best sounding kicks I've ever heard, and I would use acoustically if I were playing in a rock band. But I'm NOT, I'm playing in a metal band that has songs with top tempos into the 210-220 range where I am slamming out 16ths notes with my feet at that speed.


I think untriggerd kicks sound fine in the 210,220. but when you get up to speeds of 240-280 its just too fucking fast. the hits just dont pop out the way they need to. triggers are the way to go
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dwtoast72
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 8:18 am

xdoseonex wrote:
dahlgrendrummer wrote:
tchfunkta wrote:
dwtoast72 wrote:
xdoseonex wrote:his point was that when you you watch the video of bret baddorf playing without triggers it doesnt sound anywher near as clean and percise as the one with triggers although hes a sick drumer and his foot technique is awesome, at those speeds, unless you have triggers, the bass drum hits kind of mush together because of the low frequency of the bass drum.

point taken...
however, you're talkin about an unmiced kick drum un youtube versus a recorded kick drum via triggers...... it sounded fine to me considering the equipment



The only reason his bass drum sounds like shit in the non-triggered video is because his drum is tuned like muffled shit, which is fine when you're triggering it, but is a bullshit argument from the trigger guys because some of us non-trigger guys know how to tune their bass drum to sound good. Their arguments about time constraints in the 10 min. setup clubs made me see the benefit though.


Duh, you need to muffle it to get the individual strokes to stand out, if it's not, then it's a big boomy pile of feces at any more than 180BPM. I can tune my bass drum to sound awesome, I mean AWESOME, my Maryland Drum kit has one of the best sounding kicks I've ever heard, and I would use acoustically if I were playing in a rock band. But I'm NOT, I'm playing in a metal band that has songs with top tempos into the 210-220 range where I am slamming out 16ths notes with my feet at that speed.


I think untriggerd kicks sound fine in the 210,220. but when you get up to speeds of 240-280 its just too fucking fast. the hits just dont pop out the way they need to. triggers are the way to go

I think someone mentioned more shallow bass drums being an option. Which is true; just like using fast tom sizes. Been then there's more money out of your pocket. But which costs less, a new bass drum or all the equipment inherent with triggering?
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dahlgrendrummer
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Post Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:31 am

I spent a whooping 200 dollars on my WHOLE trigger rig. 120 for a D4 used on eBay, 55 for a DDrum trigger, and 20 on a DI box and cables. Thats way less than a new kick drum.
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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 1:07 am

xdoseonex wrote:I think untriggerd kicks sound fine in the 210,220. but when you get up to speeds of 240-280 its just too fucking fast. the hits just dont pop out the way they need to.


That it might be this way some of the time, doesn't mean it is that way all the time with every player on every kit in every situation. I think I can agree with howepirate to a certain extent, but this whole thing about it "suddenly sounding bad after 250bpm" I believe to be...well, not true in every case. I recorded a small kit with a bunch of other guys where the bass was going about 300 and it sounded pretty badass in my opinion. Guy had a good even-ness and control that I believe a lot of metal drummers just plain lack these days because the emphasis is on speed rather exactness and getting locked into a groove where every stroke is defined. Two kicks as opposed to one gives it that more "fuller sound" whereas the double kick pedals kinda choke it sometimes even though I'm willing to admit that "explosion" beats sound better on the double pedals. Interesting discussion.
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Howepirate
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Post Tue Oct 09, 2007 12:35 pm

Mikkey wrote:
xdoseonex wrote:I think untriggerd kicks sound fine in the 210,220. but when you get up to speeds of 240-280 its just too fucking fast. the hits just dont pop out the way they need to.


That it might be this way some of the time, doesn't mean it is that way all the time with every player on every kit in every situation. I think I can agree with howepirate to a certain extent, but this whole thing about it "suddenly sounding bad after 250bpm" I believe to be...well, not true in every case. I recorded a small kit with a bunch of other guys where the bass was going about 300 and it sounded pretty badass in my opinion. Guy had a good even-ness and control that I believe a lot of metal drummers just plain lack these days because the emphasis is on speed rather exactness and getting locked into a groove where every stroke is defined. Two kicks as opposed to one gives it that more "fuller sound" whereas the double kick pedals kinda choke it sometimes even though I'm willing to admit that "explosion" beats sound better on the double pedals. Interesting discussion.


Umm were speaking in 16th notes dude. Nobody plays 300 bpm 16ths. Nobody.

Besides heel-toers