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gaianbeatnik
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 9:01 am

1. people like me deserve an ass beatin, eh???? thanks for being a bully. try to beat my ass. please.
i beg you.
2. i've gotten out and met a lot of people... in fact i was raised around cops and firefighters - my dad having been fire chief and arson investigator for 10 years and me being a 5th generation VOLUNTEER firefighter. i know a lot of cops... and i knew a lot of bullys in high school who grew up to be cops, and continue to be bullies. this isn't conjecture - this is me talking about my personal experience. i realize that not EVERY cop was a bully just like you should realize that not every "towel head" is a terrorist (the real terrorists wear suits and ties and make their murderous decrees in boardrooms and halls of congress).
3. yes, people of all shapes, sizes, and professions CAN BE assholes - that's why i don't believe in giving any of them guns and telling them that by default they're practically above the law. that's called giving people permission to be assholes and engage in gang activity (such as the extortion racket of fines and the psychological scare-tactics that they not only admit to, but are proud of).
4. the job they (cops and soldiers both) have is maintaining the status quo. if you can't agree to that, you don't know what "status quo" means.
5. yes, i do have the right to say what i want... but not because my grandfather or yours fought someone from another country X years ago, but because i am willing to stand up to anyone (from my government or anyone else's) who tries to tell me otherwise. you don't have rights because of governments - you have rights because you're human and you're willing to assert them. if you don't assert them, you have no rights. if you pay someone else to do your dirty work for you, may god have mercy on you.
6. you, too, have the "right" to your opinion... i'm just adding perspectives to the conversation. more info is never a bad thing in a "free" society.
7. i'm not doubting that they fought. it just wasn't for my rights... i wasn't even born yet, they weren't fighting for me... moreover, i never asked anyone to fight in my name... and that they do quite honestly makes me sick. the "supposedly" refers to motivation... and i refer you to the part of my reply where i talk about my having rights because I stand up for them, not because someone half-a-world away just shot an iraqi or afghani. that's as irrelevent to me as the mass murderer in some city killing prostitutes... they can do it for whatever reason they want, but the end result is the same.
8. this has everything to do with the soldiers. the congress and president are paying others to kill, not doing the killing themselves. to say that it has nothing to do with soldiers is to give them a free-pass on personal responsibility and morality. DON'T GET ME WRONG - i'm not about hating the soldiers, just holding them to the same standard as everyone else. if fighting for what you believe is automatic moral justification then the "terrorists" are just as justified as the soldiers... they're putting their lives on the line for their beliefs - and many of them have already lost whole families to the occupying forces, or had already lost their family in the last Bush's desert war for oil. if we're going to shift blame farther up the line, how's the gas mileage on your SUV? are your desires for cheap oil the reason the soldiers are over there dying and killing?
9. i've got friends in every branch of the armed services, including the coast guard... don't asume that i hate soldiers just because i don't give in to the delusion that everything that is done in the name of amerikkka is righteous and justified. i feel bad for them... caught between lies, misinformation, brainwashing, and betrayal from their leaders and the bullets of people that they've been told are enemies who really only want to be left alone by foreign governments and multinational corporations. they're honoring their commitments, and i respect that attention to duty... i just personally think they should be apprised of the real enemy and start turning on their commanding officers and fat-cat politicians.


sorry to ramble on...
and sorry, also, to have disturbed the pat-on-the-back party with some attempt at discussion of legitimate issues.
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:08 am

gaianbeatnik wrote:Blah Blah Blah


Just another naive brat full of youthful angst and fashionable outrage spewing out the same tired rhetoric
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Alan_
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:19 am

dbkman wrote:I know there are bad people all over the place...but you know what, if it's a terrorist. I'm glad to hear that their chest exploded....i still thank those who can be a holes. they're killing the enemy. rock on.


an enemy we manufactured. research where Afghan militants got a lot of their weapons and funding from, starting when the Russians were at war with Afghanistan. research which country then left Afghanistan high and dry, leaving a power vacuum that enabled the Taliban to step in and establish a radical muslim theocracy. research which high-profile terrorist leader made large amounts of money off the American government working as a construction contractor. I could go on. the mess in the middle east is largely our fault.

WOOHOO KILLIN THE ENEMY. I think taking solace in the death of anyone is pretty sick.

I wish nothing more or less than for every soldier currently deployed to make it home safe.
gaianbeatnik
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:22 am

Alan_ wrote:
dbkman wrote:I know there are bad people all over the place...but you know what, if it's a terrorist. I'm glad to hear that their chest exploded....i still thank those who can be a holes. they're killing the enemy. rock on.


an enemy we manufactured. research where Afghan militants got a lot of their weapons and funding from, starting when the Russians were at war with Afghanistan. research which country then left Afghanistan high and dry, leaving a power vacuum that enabled the Taliban to step in and establish a radical muslim theocracy. research which high-profile terrorist leader made large amounts of money off the American government working as a construction contractor. I could go on. the mess in the middle east is largely our fault.

WOOHOO KILLIN THE ENEMY. I think taking solace in the death of anyone is pretty sick.

I wish nothing more or less than for every soldier currently deployed to make it home safe.


thank you for being one of very few people who acknowledge OUR role in the state of the world.
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:23 am

Alan_ wrote:
dbkman wrote:I know there are bad people all over the place...but you know what, if it's a terrorist. I'm glad to hear that their chest exploded....i still thank those who can be a holes. they're killing the enemy. rock on.


an enemy we manufactured. research where Afghan militants got a lot of their weapons and funding from, starting when the Russians were at war with Afghanistan. research which country then left Afghanistan high and dry, leaving a power vacuum that enabled the Taliban to step in and establish a radical muslim theocracy. research which high-profile terrorist leader made large amounts of money off the American government working as a construction contractor. I could go on. the mess in the middle east is largely our fault.

WOOHOO KILLIN THE ENEMY. I think taking solace in the death of anyone is pretty sick.

I wish nothing more or less than for every soldier currently deployed to make it home safe.


The words conflict of interest mean anything to you?
gaianbeatnik
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:25 am

Empyrean Drums wrote:
gaianbeatnik wrote:Blah Blah Blah


Just another naive brat full of youthful angst and fashionable outrage spewing out the same tired rhetoric


yeah -- a naiive middle-aged brat with a degree in political philosophy and a lot of life experience.

maybe i'm saying the "same tired rhetoric" because it's the TRUTH????
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Alan_
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:26 am

Um, Halliburton anyone? :P
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:31 am

gaianbeatnik wrote:
Empyrean Drums wrote:
gaianbeatnik wrote:Blah Blah Blah


Just another naive brat full of youthful angst and fashionable outrage spewing out the same tired rhetoric


yeah -- a naiive middle-aged brat with a degree in political philosophy and a lot of life experience.

maybe i'm saying the "same tired rhetoric" because it's the TRUTH????


Uh, no. Just because you believe it doesn't make your blanket generalizations of American Soldiers or your over-simplification of foreign policy true.

And with the way you convey your points I wonder what bartending college gave you a degree in political philospohy
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:33 am

Alan_ wrote:Um, Halliburton anyone? :P


What about it? Do you have another contractor you would suggest replace them, or just repeating more talking points?
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:41 am

Empyrean Drums wrote:
Alan_ wrote:Um, Halliburton anyone? :P


What about it? Do you have another contractor you would suggest replace them, or just repeating more talking points?


there's no single contractor that could. I'm just not sure the amount of business our government does with them is healthy, nor do I think we're getting what we pay for. And furthermore: Dick Cheney.
gaianbeatnik
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:46 am

Empyrean Drums wrote:
gaianbeatnik wrote:
Empyrean Drums wrote:
gaianbeatnik wrote:Blah Blah Blah


Just another naive brat full of youthful angst and fashionable outrage spewing out the same tired rhetoric


yeah -- a naiive middle-aged brat with a degree in political philosophy and a lot of life experience.

maybe i'm saying the "same tired rhetoric" because it's the TRUTH????


Uh, no. Just because you believe it doesn't make your blanket generalizations of American Soldiers or your over-simplification of foreign policy true.

And with the way you convey your points I wonder what bartending college gave you a degree in political philospohy


ad-hominem attacks do not a cogent argument make. all you've done is try to bash me... why don't you address my argument instead?

i'm not saying that it's true simply because i believe it, i'm saying i believe it because it's true... and you covering your ears and going "la la la" doesn't make it any less so.

i won't dignify you with replies until you actually discuss issues rather than trying to impugn my person. and don't think that your little homophobic comment on the other thread is any different. i pity you.
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:47 am

It's often true that contracting work out costs the government way more money than doing it in-house.

I worked as an audit report writer in a government agency that transitioned from operating its own facilities to utilizing contractors to run them. Oversight of where the money was going was much more difficult, regulations weren't being followed, and it was just plain more expensive to supply a similar level of service. Furthermore it was rare that a similar level of service was maintained. The main difference in price was profit earned by the contractor.
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:59 am

gaianbeatnik wrote:

ad-hominem attacks do not a cogent argument make. all you've done is try to bash me... why don't you address my argument instead?

i'm not saying that it's true simply because i believe it, i'm saying i believe it because it's true... and you covering your ears and going "la la la" doesn't make it any less so.

i won't dignify you with replies until you actually discuss issues rather than trying to impugn my person. and don't think that your little homophobic comment on the other thread is any different. i pity you.


Debating you is a waste of time, so I skip to the end and express my opinion of your dumb ass. You don't really have any points, just your diatribe full of slander. You keep saying it's the truth, but after almost every point you quilify with "it my experience and opinion". Which is it, the truth or your opinion?
gaianbeatnik
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:12 am

Empyrean Drums wrote:
gaianbeatnik wrote:

ad-hominem attacks do not a cogent argument make. all you've done is try to bash me... why don't you address my argument instead?

i'm not saying that it's true simply because i believe it, i'm saying i believe it because it's true... and you covering your ears and going "la la la" doesn't make it any less so.

i won't dignify you with replies until you actually discuss issues rather than trying to impugn my person. and don't think that your little homophobic comment on the other thread is any different. i pity you.


Debating you is a waste of time, so I skip to the end and express my opinion of your dumb ass. You don't really have any points, just your diatribe full of slander. You keep saying it's the truth, but after almost every point you quilify with "it my experience and opinion". Which is it, the truth or your opinion?


you're the only one doing any slandering.
knowledge can only be based upon experience - therefore i qualify that what i'm saying does come from my own personal experience, therefore i know it to be true and not hearsay or propaganda.
i'm not arrogant enough to think that all of my opinions are true or that all of my experiences are universal... but what i know, i KNOW.

and what i know, unfortunately, is that you're both ignorant and pathetic - i've experienced that through your posts, so while it is my opinion, it also appears to be true. sorry to be the one to tell you.
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Post Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:19 am

gaianbeatnik wrote:
you're the only one doing any slandering.
knowledge can only be based upon experience - therefore i qualify that what i'm saying does come from my own personal experience, therefore i know it to be true and not hearsay or propaganda.
i'm not arrogant enough to think that all of my opinions are true or that all of my experiences are universal... but what i know, i KNOW.

and what i know, unfortunately, is that you're both ignorant and pathetic - i've experienced that through your posts, so while it is my opinion, it also appears to be true. sorry to be the one to tell you.


No, I'm here insulting YOU, an individual who is slandering a group of people who are not here to defend your assertions. Don't beleive everything you think.