Metal Drummers vs. Jazz Drummers

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What style of music do you think is harder to play?

Jazz
77
74%
Metal
27
26%
 
Total votes: 104
thursday_1134
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Post Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:14 pm

polyrythemicgenocide wrote:
elchris2k6 wrote:jazz is more creative, a more expandable sound...metal is just fast and loud


You're point is both true and untrue. Jazz is highly skilled and creative but, so is metal, not just fast and loud. Drummers that play in a certain style or band don't necessarily deserve to be doing so, because, the popularity of a band, the CV of a drummer, the amount of millions the albums sold or how many weeks it stays at number one, doesn't account for quality. An example of that is Lars Ulrich, biggest disgrace to both drumming and metal, a poor mans impression of Animal on a good day. Fame can come from pity, hence the abundance of reality TV shows. It is wrong to say that metal is JUST fast and loud, metal as with any other genre or sub-genre spawns countless amounts of bands that fit a certain catergory but sound millions of miles apart. For you to say that, is the equivelant of me working in your local H.M.V. and refusing to let you buy a Motzart CD unless you produce ID to prove you are a freemason.


I coulodnt agree more with the comment about Lars Ulrich. patheitc, all i got to say.
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Post Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:34 pm

I feel that they are more or less, as difficult as the other, just in different ways.
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 12:56 am

Jazz drummers
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Mike_Drums
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:05 am

id have to say that overall jazz, mostly because it takes fantastic timing , creativity and many years of hard work to be a good jazz drummer, where as ive seen some good bands and the drummer tells me hes only been playing a year or two, not to take anything from metal, i love it, dimmu borgir, bathory, behemoth, and to be a metal drummer is difficult, i still vote jazz
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mmmmdrums
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 1:22 am

first of all I am predominantly a jazz player

I have never actually tried to sit down and play metal because I have never had the desire to.

I definitely believe that metal is a very physically demanding genre, but you can build up the stamina and muscle to get through it
Jazz is also a demanding genre, but it is based on feel, if you dont have the feel to begin with, you will never have it


I choose jazz, it's something that you definitely have to be a natural at to have a good feel

also, don't get me wrong there are some very musical metal drummers, but frankly there are a LOT of musical jazz drummers
Check out my new tunes!

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PatternsInTheIvy
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:30 am

Wow, I was about to post something really crazy from only judging the posts from the first page. I'm glad I read on and saw that there are some people with sense in them, thanks guys for being smart!
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PatternsInTheIvy
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:36 am

mmmmdrums wrote:first of all I am predominantly a jazz player

I have never actually tried to sit down and play metal because I have never had the desire to.

I definitely believe that metal is a very physically demanding genre, but you can build up the stamina and muscle to get through it
Jazz is also a demanding genre, but it is based on feel, if you dont have the feel to begin with, you will never have it


I choose jazz, it's something that you definitely have to be a natural at to have a good feel

also, don't get me wrong there are some very musical metal drummers, but frankly there are a LOT of musical jazz drummers


I dont feel that way at all. A lot of people, well things in general, are really crappy, and that does not exclude jazz. I've seen plenty of jazz drummers that had "feel" but it still didn't sound like they were anything that great.

I think what people don't get here is that people that play in jazz are solely in it for the music, and therefore you get a higher ratio of good musicians.
Whereas with metal, and even more so rock and pop, you get people that really have no idea what the hell they are doing and just trying to make a buck.
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mmmmdrums
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 9:13 am

I agree with you about jazz musicians being more in it for the music because from experience i know that there is NO money in jazz
but I still disagree about the feel

if you have the feel then all the rest will fall into place

if the drummers didn't sound good to you then they obviously didn't have the feel

to me feel doesn't just mean playing swung jazzy rhythms

feel is the overall quality of the music and how into it the person is
Check out my new tunes!

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Empyrean Drums
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:45 am

So enlighten me-what is the real difference between a "jazz" drummer and a "metal" drummer? Do the laws of physics apply differently depending on what style you play? With the variety of styles and players from each genre, how do you draw the line between styles of music while keeping regard to styles of playing?
I see such a variety of techniques and the way they are applied that it is difficult for me to match the generalizations posted here to any specific style or drummer. It’s almost as if these stereotypes are derived more from ignorance and rhetoric then actual experience or tangible examples
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 10:51 am

BlastBeaterX wrote:Being a multi genre drummer myself I would actually say both music styles can be pretty hard or pretty easy depending on what style of jazz or metal you're playing. Like the guy with the brutal deathmetal post, that is probably one of the most extreme genres to play and requires alot of physical training. Flo mounier himself incorporates Latin jazz into alot of Cryptopsy's music, if you havn't you owe yourself to check him out he's amazing.

oh and I'm new to the boards, nice to meet all the new drummers here!


Ive only heard theyre song worship your demons but its awesome.

Metal. it just interests me more.
R.I.P. Jimmy "the Rev" Sullivan. You will be missed.
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Mitchell?
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:20 am

At the poll question:

The one that is hardest for you.

I mean, not everyone can do what iatemygoat, and xdoesonex do. I sure as hell know I can't.

But some people don't have the feel for jazz.

It all comes down to the player, and what he chooses to focus on, practice on, and then, excel in.
_...:::/ Jimbob2020 agrees \:::..._
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PatternsInTheIvy
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Post Sat Jun 28, 2008 11:51 pm

Empyrean Drums wrote:So enlighten me-what is the real difference between a "jazz" drummer and a "metal" drummer? Do the laws of physics apply differently depending on what style you play? With the variety of styles and players from each genre, how do you draw the line between styles of music while keeping regard to styles of playing?
I see such a variety of techniques and the way they are applied that it is difficult for me to match the generalizations posted here to any specific style or drummer. It’s almost as if these stereotypes are derived more from ignorance and rhetoric then actual experience or tangible examples


Thats how ALL stereotypes are derived :roll:
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Post Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:05 am

metal is only fast and loud?

you obviously know nothing about the metal genre. Metal drumming is extremely technical when it comes to hand/feet coordination mixed with speed and power. finger technique for blasting (german/french/american grip), gravity blasts. swivel, heel-toe, flat-foot, heel-up...must i go on?

It takes a lot of patience and endurance to be a metal drummer. I am not going to say anything about jazz drumming because I do not know much and I don't want to sound like an idiot. :lol:

also, if you want to see how tecniqle metal drumming can be, check out some drum cams or clinics of Chris Alder (Lamb of God), George Kollias (Nile), or Derek Roddy (ex-Hate Eternal, Serpent's Rise). All three are amazing teachers and masters of metal drumming technique. Chris Adler makes very complex metal tracks with different sounds of cymbals and unorthodox double bass patterns. George Kollias and Derek Roddy and known for their control, speed and endurance while playing. Derek Roddy's first style of drumming was also Jazz...Metal was actually his latest drumming endeavor. Derek still incorporates Jazz into his metal playing. Check out the amazing footwork on the track "I, Monarch". He uses his double bass as well as two highhats:

Track: "I, Monarch"
Band: Hate Eternal
Drum Cam: http://youtube.com/watch?v=kSNcXi-4Ya4&feature=related
Foot-Camera View (note: this is not derek roddy playing in the following video, it is someone who is recording their feet for the same song): http://youtube.com/watch?v=rQ2QTW3gNi0&feature=related

----

I hoped this post enlightened some people.
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PatternsInTheIvy
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Post Sun Jun 29, 2008 12:16 am

Thank you Manzo! Derek Roddy in particular has just as much feel as any Jazz drummer IMO, and George Kollias has insane technique! Also, Inferno from Behemoth is a very masterful drummer.
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Post Sun Jun 29, 2008 8:53 am

Both require skill.
Just different skills.

the same technique level is applied to both... but the feel is polar opposite.

Listen to Joey Baron's playing on the Torture Garden album by Naked City.
Then listen to his playing on any of John Zorn's Masada albums.

A perfect example of a drummer that can pull both off.